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Old 05.11.2017, 17:08
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Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Hi everyone, I tried searching in the forum but I didn't find anything about it, so if there was already a thread on the topic I apologize.

Ever since I moved into my new apartment (one year ago) I've had a shoe rack and a small stool outside my door. My old janitor (not sure if that's the right translation for Hauswart) told me it was ok, since in my stairway there's enough room for a stretcher to pass.
A few weeks ago my landlord hired a new janitor, who's not happy about stuff outside of the door, and told my landlord that, by law, nothing should be there.
I refuse to believe that nothing outside is allowed regardless of the available space, because in most places I've seen here everyone leaves their shoes outside.

Does anybody know where I could find the regulation for such things (space in cm that should be left free, nature of the object that can be left outside, whether on the floor or on the wall, etc.)?
It's ok if it's in German, the important thing is that it's some official regulation that I can refer to when talking to my landlord.
(Just in case the canton makes a difference, I live in Zurich)

Thank you in advance
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Old 05.11.2017, 17:12
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Have you checked the terms and conditions which are part of your rental agreement?
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Old 05.11.2017, 17:29
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

You will only find laws that will say that escape routes should be free from obstacles, wether or not your shoes are an obstacle could be open for debate.

What is not open for debate is if you have the right to put your personal belongings in a common area in the building, you do not have this right. If the landlord want your shoes out of the common area you just have to comply with this.

TLDR: Take your shoes inside the house.
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Old 05.11.2017, 20:36
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

And maybe read this recent post: https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...stairwell.html
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Old 05.11.2017, 20:38
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Normally it's not allowed.

Tom
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Old 05.11.2017, 21:20
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

From ImmoScout:

Sauf mention contraire dans le contrat de bail, la cage d’escalier ne fait pas partie de l’appartement loué. Cela signifie que la cage d’escalier n’est pas destinée à un usage privé, mais à un usage commun.
Pourquoi ne peut-on rien entreposer dans la cage d’escalier?

Entreposer de nombreux objets dans la cage d’escalier engendre deux problèmes:

Cela entrave le concierge dans ses travaux de nettoyage.
En cas d’urgence (s’il y a un incendie, par exemple), la cage d’escalier sert d’issue de secours. C’est la raison pour laquelle, selon les toutes dernières directives en cas d’incendie, rien ne doit entraver le passage dans la cage d’escalier. C’est la seule manière de garantir que les habitants pourront évacuer rapidement, et que les pompiers pourront se frayer un chemin sur le lieu de l’incendie.

In short : the stairwell is not part of the area you rent, but to common areas. Unless it is clearly stipulated in your rental contract that you are allowed to keep stuff there, like a shoe rack- then then answer is no.

For 2 reasons: makes it harder for the caretaker/concierge to keep the area clean- but mainly in case f an emergency, like a fire- for easier access to fire services.

So I'm afraid yo haven't got a leg, or a shoe- to stand on here.
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Old 05.11.2017, 21:48
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Hate it when stinky shoes perfume the hallways. Keep your body odors indoors, please! :-) In our house, it's forbidden and I'm really glad about that.
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Old 05.11.2017, 22:12
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

It's also combustible material in a stairwell which is specifically designed to be a safe escape route. The available space to get a stretcher round is only part of the reason why stairwells have to be kept clear.
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Old 05.11.2017, 22:30
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Strollers are almost always kept in common areas.

Do they fall under some exemption?
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Old 05.11.2017, 22:44
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

It's horrible having stuff outside doors.. Our last place the neighbours left all their crap outside, half blocked the lift.. Everything from shoes, umbrellas, scooters, little bags of dog crap.. Totally thoughtless..

Having one of those tall thin cupboards with everything inside is normally ok.. But a big pile of junk, no!!

So much better where we are now, zero outside, nothing.
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Old 05.11.2017, 23:11
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

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Strollers are almost always kept in common areas.

Do they fall under some exemption?
Not that I'm aware of. My hunch is that neighbors tolerate them - more or less - on the grounds that "we've all been there" and because the alternative (wrestling stroller AND baby up many flights of steps every time - simultaneously? One after the other leaving the baby to scream its lungs out upstairs?) seems like a heavy burden to lay on someone who may well already be finding it difficult to leave the house.

But no, in principle strollers shouldn't be in stairwells, and if your landlord or your fire department does complain you probably haven't got a leg to stand on.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:23
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

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It's horrible having stuff outside doors.. Our last place the neighbours left all their crap outside, half blocked the lift.. Everything from shoes, umbrellas, scooters, little bags of dog crap.. Totally thoughtless..
Just wow!
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:30
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

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It's horrible having stuff outside doors.. Our last place the neighbours left all their crap outside, half blocked the lift.. Everything from shoes, umbrellas, scooters, little bags of dog crap.. Totally thoughtless..

Having one of those tall thin cupboards with everything inside is normally ok.. But a big pile of junk, no!!

So much better where we are now, zero outside, nothing.
Your apartment is not in a very salubrious area then. I guess it is coloured brown on the West Switzerland monopoly board.
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Old 06.11.2017, 11:09
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

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Strollers are almost always kept in common areas.

Do they fall under some exemption?
Yes, strollers can be kept in common areas. On areas specifically destined for such, that is. In most cantons, there is a specific law for the size and placement of such areas - and wether or not they must be enclosed.

Fire safety laws have changed in 2015, so most older houses have not been updated on the new law.

Basically - on the platform outside each apartment you should have no stroller, no shoes, no cupboard, nor anything flammable. Also no paintings on the wall. The rules also change depending on the height of the building - above 11 meters the rules get way more restrictive. There must be 1.20 meters of complete free space as an escape route, 100% free of any obstacle or flammable object (like shoes).

Strollers should be kept in areas that do not affect the escape routes, for example, under the last flight of stairs. Or in the bike room. Or in the basement.

My neighbour in Zürich Oberland had made an extension of the living room out of the stairs platform: there was over 20 pair of stinky shoes, a chair, 2 cabinets and the most kitsch painting known to mankind on the wall. I could not pass by carrying shopping bags on both hands. In case of fire, I would have better chances just jumping out of the 5th floor.
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Old 06.11.2017, 11:48
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Can we just add to the sticky FAQ, in bold - "NO, YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO LEAVE YOUR SHOES (OR ANYTHING ELSE) IN THE SHARED HALL".

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...stairwell.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...asement-3.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...how-reply.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...illing-up.html
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Old 06.11.2017, 11:55
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

*gets on soap box*

For the law (DE, FR, IT):

http://www.praever.ch/de/bs/vs/richt...n/default.aspx

If your neighbours are using the platform area as a storage space, and your landlord is doing nothing about it, you can contact your local city for help - The Fire Department (Feuerpolizei in German). Their contact should be visible in the site of your commune, usually under the Construction department.

DO NOT FEEL GUILTY FOR BLOWING THE WISSLE - the rules exist to protect you and those around you in case of fire.

Disregard of fire safety laws lead to injuries and death. Don't go "live and let live" on sh!t that puts lives at risk.

This is not because a little snowflake doesn't like to smell the foot perfume of their neighbours, it's because fire kills.
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Old 06.11.2017, 12:37
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

I should probably remove the carved pumpkin

So pretty, though. How flammable is a pumpkin?
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Old 06.11.2017, 13:48
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

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I should probably remove the carved pumpkin

So pretty, though. How flammable is a pumpkin?
Not very until they dry out enough.

If the lid dries out enough for the candle to make it smoke, it will absolutely stink, speaking from experience
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Old 06.11.2017, 22:46
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

Yes, strollers can be kept in common areas.

I don't think babies should be allowed at all in flats...


Ian

Source: My neighbour above has two. I am a very light sleeper.
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Old 06.11.2017, 23:05
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Re: Shoe rack outside the door: allowed?

I guess you really mean you WERE a light sleeper. Now progressed to non- sleeper. You have my sympathy.
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