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  #41  
Old 24.11.2017, 23:34
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Learn how they work, and you will see the dangers.
Just wear a ground strap, problem solved.

Anyway, if you aren't grounded enough to light the neon lamp inside, you aren't grounded enough to get shocked.

That said, I've been shocked many times over the years, and not just minor league stuff like 100 or 220V mains.

Tom
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  #42  
Old 25.11.2017, 00:18
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Here's meter reading:

Dark Blue and Yellow are Live.
Voltage between Yellow and Light Blue abt 53V.
Voltage between Dark Blue and Light Blue abt 30V.
Voltage in socket only 15V.

Checked other socket in room, it went up to higher than 200V.
Further to above, Dark Blue seems to connect to light switch, Yellow to Socket.

If I only connect dark blue to brown on ceiling lamp and isolate yellow, ceiling lamp is fine, on/off works, just socket is off grid.

If i connect both dark blue and yellow to brown, when i turn on the floor lamp connected to socket, both floor lamp and ceiling lamp flicker.
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  #43  
Old 25.11.2017, 05:03
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Just wear a ground strap, problem solved.

Anyway, if you aren't grounded enough to light the neon lamp inside, you aren't grounded enough to get shocked.
You know damn well that no professional is using these things, and no do-it-yourselfer is using ground straps

And you assuming that test location and measurement location are equal is ridiculous

Thought of adding some rolleyes, you seem to love them...
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  #44  
Old 25.11.2017, 05:09
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Further to above, Dark Blue seems to connect to light switch, Yellow to Socket.

If I only connect dark blue to brown on ceiling lamp and isolate yellow, ceiling lamp is fine, on/off works, just socket is off grid.

If i connect both dark blue and yellow to brown, when i turn on the floor lamp connected to socket, both floor lamp and ceiling lamp flicker.
This does not in any logical way add up to the voltages you've measured.

If you look at the socket and the switch, which colours are used and is there any connection made between them at that location?
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  #45  
Old 25.11.2017, 05:11
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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That said, I've been shocked many times over the years, and not just minor league stuff like 100 or 220V mains.

Tom
Which just states that you are not the person to ask about safety..

And since you like numbers, greets from someone with 30 years experience from 10V to 20KV
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  #46  
Old 25.11.2017, 08:16
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Here's meter reading:

Dark Blue and Yellow are Live.
Voltage between Yellow and Light Blue abt 53V.
Voltage between Dark Blue and Light Blue abt 30V.
Voltage in socket only 15V.

Checked other socket in room, it went up to higher than 200V.
Please call an electrician in to look at it.

If it's a rental call the landlord.
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  #47  
Old 25.11.2017, 08:58
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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This does not in any logical way add up to the voltages you've measured.

If you look at the socket and the switch, which colours are used and is there any connection made between them at that location?
Good Morning.

Here is the picture of switch / socket wires. Hopefully you can suggest how to fix it.
Attached Thumbnails
yet-another-wiring-question-20171125_075344-600x1067.jpg  
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  #48  
Old 25.11.2017, 10:18
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Are you sure about the yellow/dark Blue? Yellow is (or used to be) a common color for line, but I don't think I've ever seen blue.
My '50ties house had some blue wiring for line.......
Has been changed of course.

And lots of yellow for neutral, as was standard at the time.

Jos
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  #49  
Old 25.11.2017, 10:19
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Here's meter reading:

Dark Blue and Yellow are Live.
Voltage between Yellow and Light Blue abt 53V.
Voltage between Dark Blue and Light Blue abt 30V.
Voltage in socket only 15V.

Checked other socket in room, it went up to higher than 200V.
Do you have it set to read AC, or DC?

Tom
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  #50  
Old 25.11.2017, 10:21
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Which just states that you are not the person to ask about safety..
It was mainly working on tube amplifies and motorcycle and car ignitions.

Mains, never.

Tom
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  #51  
Old 25.11.2017, 10:38
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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do you have it set to read ac, or dc?

Tom
ac.
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  #52  
Old 25.11.2017, 10:40
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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My '50ties house had some blue wiring for line.......
Has been changed of course.

And lots of yellow for neutral, as was standard at the time.

Jos
I stand corrected. It's been about 25 years since I dealt with older wiring from before the change.
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  #53  
Old 25.11.2017, 10:55
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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I stand corrected. It's been about 25 years since I dealt with older wiring from before the change.
Look here (Ger: ) https://www.beobachter.ch/wohnen/bau...25117744388097 under Aderfarben for a taste of the rich Swiss history of assigning colours to electrical wires.
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  #54  
Old 25.11.2017, 11:08
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Look here (Ger: ) https://www.beobachter.ch/wohnen/bau...25117744388097 under Aderfarben for a taste of the rich Swiss history of assigning colours to electrical wires.
I apprenticed as an industrial electrician. I generally check with a DVM rather than trusting that someone has followed a colour code. Electrons don't care what colour the insulation is.
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  #55  
Old 25.11.2017, 12:49
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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It was mainly working on tube amplifies and motorcycle and car ignitions.

Mains, never.

Tom
Ah lol, gives a different view on your previous post.
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  #56  
Old 25.11.2017, 13:51
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Good Morning.

Here is the picture of switch / socket wires. Hopefully you can suggest how to fix it.
This is how it should be:

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Green/Yellow - Earth
Light Blue (yellow in old systems) - Neutral
Black, White or Red - Live
All colours (except green/yellow, Light Blue and Yellow) - Switched Live
Logic would say this is true:

The right side of the socket with yellow and light blue should be neutral (let's name this A)
The middle of the socket is neutral with the yellow/green wire. (Let's name this B)
The left side of the socket with black is switched line since you said the socket worked along with the switch. (Let's name this C)

Left bottom of the Switch is connected to left side of socket, so red is switched line, (let's name this D, but should be equal to C)
Right side of the Switch with dark blue then has to be line. (Let's name this E)

Your lamp eventually has to be connected like this:

Brown (line) to C or D
Blue (neutral) to A
Earth to B

Note: There are two outgoing Switched line wires, so more than only this socket and the lamp is behind the Switch could be more sockets, could be another lamp, could be both.

If no lamp(s) is/are connected and nothing is in the wall socket(s) you should measure this:

Switch on:

A to B = 0V
A to C = 230V
A to D = 230V
A to E = 230V
B to C = 230V
B to D = 230V
B to E = 0V
C to D = 0V
C to E = 0V
D to E = 0V

Switch off:

A to B = 0V
A to C = 0V
A to D = 0V
A to E = 230V
B to C = 0V
B to D = 0V
B to E = 230V
C to D = 0V
C to E = 0V
D to E = 0V

Can you measure everything at the switch, and state your results.

Since on your ceiling it shows us

1. A pair of Dark Blue and Yellow.
2. A pair of green/yellow
3. Single Light Blue

Which just does not add up to everything we just concluded on the Switch, but we start from the Switch.
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  #57  
Old 25.11.2017, 19:01
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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This is how it should be:



Logic would say this is true:

The right side of the socket with yellow and light blue should be neutral (let's name this A)
The middle of the socket is neutral with the yellow/green wire. (Let's name this B)
The left side of the socket with black is switched line since you said the socket worked along with the switch. (Let's name this C)

Left bottom of the Switch is connected to left side of socket, so red is switched line, (let's name this D, but should be equal to C)
Right side of the Switch with dark blue then has to be line. (Let's name this E)

Your lamp eventually has to be connected like this:

Brown (line) to C or D
Blue (neutral) to A
Earth to B

Note: There are two outgoing Switched line wires, so more than only this socket and the lamp is behind the Switch could be more sockets, could be another lamp, could be both.

If no lamp(s) is/are connected and nothing is in the wall socket(s) you should measure this:

Switch on:

A to B = 0V
A to C = 230V
A to D = 230V
A to E = 230V
B to C = 230V
B to D = 230V
B to E = 0V
C to D = 0V
C to E = 0V
D to E = 0V

Switch off:

A to B = 0V
A to C = 0V
A to D = 0V
A to E = 230V
B to C = 0V
B to D = 0V
B to E = 230V
C to D = 0V
C to E = 0V
D to E = 0V

Can you measure everything at the switch, and state your results.

Since on your ceiling it shows us

1. A pair of Dark Blue and Yellow.
2. A pair of green/yellow
3. Single Light Blue

Which just does not add up to everything we just concluded on the Switch, but we start from the Switch.
Hi Edwin,

Thanks for your help.

Will try to go through all test cases, and post back.

In the meantime, could you guess a solution to another puzzle (to me at least)?

Originally, the wires at ceiling lamp had white plastic clams, and socket worked just fine. Than i tried to hang the lamp, failed, and just put all plartics clams back. BUT the socket never worked as before. I made sure clams had good connections, even bought new expensive one to test. How is that possible?
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  #58  
Old 25.11.2017, 19:07
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Hi Edwin,

Thanks for your help.

Will try to go through all test cases, and post back.

In the meantime, could you guess a solution to another puzzle (to me at least)?

Originally, the wires at ceiling lamp had white plastic clams, and socket worked just fine. Than i tried to hang the lamp, failed, and just put all plartics clams back. BUT the socket never worked as before. I made sure clams had good connections, even bought new expensive one to test. How is that possible?
If you put the clamPs (or connectors) back exactly as they were then it may be a broken wire.

Given the age of your installation those wires may have been stuffed into the dose by generations of renters. Even the most tolerant copper eventually gives up and breaks.
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Old 25.11.2017, 19:08
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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Hi Edwin,

Thanks for your help.

Will try to go through all test cases, and post back.

In the meantime, could you guess a solution to another puzzle (to me at least)?

Originally, the wires at ceiling lamp had white plastic clams, and socket worked just fine. Than i tried to hang the lamp, failed, and just put all plartics clams back. BUT the socket never worked as before. I made sure clams had good connections, even bought new expensive one to test. How is that possible?
1: Movement/Force can cause a weak spot in a wire to break even tho the insulation will not show this to your eyes, or disrupt a connection close-by.
2: Connections are not restored proper.
3: Your idea of how the situation was is incorrect.
4: Pure coincidence, the switch might have broken down, rare for this to happen at such moment, but it happens.
5: Something in the cabinet switched off?

Nothing personal, but my years of experience taught me that when people say "I am certain I restored everything as was" the best reaction is to distrust such info.
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Old 25.11.2017, 19:12
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Re: Yet another wiring question

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1: Movement/Force can cause a weak spot in a wire to break even tho the insulation will not show this to your eyes, or disrupt a connection close-by.
2: Connections are not restored proper.
3: Your idea of how the situation was is incorrect.
4: Pure coincidence, the switch might have broken down, rare for this to happen at such moment, but it happens.
5: Something in the cabinet switched off?

Nothing personal, but my years of experience taught me that when people say "I am certain I restored everything as was" the best reaction is to distrust such info.
I never touched the green/yellow as lamp does not have earth. So i all did is connect back the Live pair together with a clamp (yellow and dark blue) and light blue neutral on its own with another clamp.
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