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Old 26.11.2017, 14:09
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Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

We are currently looking at buying a property in Switzerland. Initially our timeline was to complete the sale around Easter 18 - all very relaxed. Now we've seen somewhere we are interested in that has two other people interested and the vendor wants to complete either end of December or January.

As my pillar II return is a world-beating 0.5% at the moment, it looks like it would make more sense to withdraw rather than pledge and fund non-pension investments with a more suitable risk/return profile. 2 questions:

Does anyone know how long it takes to process a withdrawal (and pledging)?
I know there is a tax for withdrawing the funds. I thought it was a one off, but my pension fund's website seems to suggest it is annual. Anyone know? If it is annual it impacts the decision to withdraw as I have a higher investment return hurdle. If they are actually just suggesting it would increase wealth tax amount, I'm fine with it - I'm talking about a specific tax on the withdrawn capital at the same rate as when it is first withdrawn.
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Old 26.11.2017, 15:23
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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We are currently looking at buying a property in Switzerland. Initially our timeline was to complete the sale around Easter 18 - all very relaxed. Now we've seen somewhere we are interested in that has two other people interested and the vendor wants to complete either end of December or January.

As my pillar II return is a world-beating 0.5% at the moment, it looks like it would make more sense to withdraw rather than pledge and fund non-pension investments with a more suitable risk/return profile. 2 questions:

Does anyone know how long it takes to process a withdrawal (and pledging)?
I know there is a tax for withdrawing the funds. I thought it was a one off, but my pension fund's website seems to suggest it is annual. Anyone know? If it is annual it impacts the decision to withdraw as I have a higher investment return hurdle. If they are actually just suggesting it would increase wealth tax amount, I'm fine with it - I'm talking about a specific tax on the withdrawn capital at the same rate as when it is first withdrawn.
Withdrawal won't take very long if all paperwork is provided. The tax is a one off, based on where you live not where the fund is based.
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Old 27.11.2017, 20:53
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

Cheers FMF.

Mortgage advisor thinks 2-3 weeks to get the funds out. Pensions advisor is answering my calls or email!!

And does anyone know if the tax to pay on withdrawal is paid as part of your annual tax return or is paid upon withdrawal?
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Old 14.12.2017, 01:13
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

Can someone explain the process/paperwork behind this? I'm interested in doing the same.
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Old 14.12.2017, 07:50
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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Can someone explain the process/paperwork behind this? I'm interested in doing the same.
Contact your pension fund and tell them what you want to do. They’ll send you a couple of forms. One you fill out with the request and one your bank needs to complete to confirm your use of the funds is legit. I have to pay a 200 fee for the release. YMMV.

The part where I am currently coming unstuck is I have to produce a certificate that I am single (withdrawal impacts your spouse, so you either need to be unmarried or have their permission). I ordered one from the Gemeinde, but they’ve told me I have to order one from the UK. I’m pretty sure they don’t exist in the UK. Plan of action is to go the Gemeinde in person.

I’ve been told I can have the funds a few days after the paperwork is sent back to the pension fund.
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Old 14.12.2017, 08:12
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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The part where I am currently coming unstuck is I have to produce a certificate that I am single (withdrawal impacts your spouse, so you either need to be unmarried or have their permission). I ordered one from the Gemeinde, but they’ve told me I have to order one from the UK. I’m pretty sure they don’t exist in the UK. Plan of action is to go the Gemeinde in person.
Print and bring at least this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...vil_Status.pdf

Additionally do/get an affidavit from the UK Embassy where you declare your Civil Status. They are usually done when you want to get married.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial...nite-documents

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And does anyone know if the tax to pay on withdrawal is paid as part of your annual tax return or is paid upon withdrawal?
The withdrawal tax is calculated and billed separate from the annual tax. The withdrawal tax depends only on the withdrawn amount irrespective of wealth and income.
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Old 14.12.2017, 10:42
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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Contact your pension fund and tell them what you want to do. They’ll send you a couple of forms. One you fill out with the request and one your bank needs to complete to confirm your use of the funds is legit. I have to pay a 200 fee for the release. YMMV.

The part where I am currently coming unstuck is I have to produce a certificate that I am single (withdrawal impacts your spouse, so you either need to be unmarried or have their permission). I ordered one from the Gemeinde, but they’ve told me I have to order one from the UK. I’m pretty sure they don’t exist in the UK. Plan of action is to go the Gemeinde in person.

I’ve been told I can have the funds a few days after the paperwork is sent back to the pension fund.
British consulate in Bern, will get you to swear an affidavit, this will be accepted.
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Old 14.12.2017, 17:22
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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Print and bring at least this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...vil_Status.pdf

Additionally do/get an affidavit from the UK Embassy where you declare your Civil Status. They are usually done when you want to get married.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial...nite-documents



The withdrawal tax is calculated and billed separate from the annual tax. The withdrawal tax depends only on the withdrawn amount irrespective of wealth and income.
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British consulate in Bern, will get you to swear an affidavit, this will be accepted.
Thanks both. Their fee schedule makes the Gemeinde fees seem quite reasonable!
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Old 20.08.2018, 13:24
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

Can this sort of withdrawal only be used to finance property in CH ?

I mean can i simply rock up to my pension fund ask for 200k to buy a holiday flat in France? Does one have to live in it for example?
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Old 20.08.2018, 13:53
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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The withdrawal tax is calculated and billed separate from the annual tax. The withdrawal tax depends only on the withdrawn amount irrespective of wealth and income.
To follow up on this, I withdrew in January and finally got a bill in June for payment in July (federal) and August (cantonal).
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Old 20.08.2018, 13:57
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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Can this sort of withdrawal only be used to finance property in CH ?

I mean can i simply rock up to my pension fund ask for 200k to buy a holiday flat in France? Does one have to live in it for example?
Owner-occupied residential property in the main place of residence.
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Old 20.08.2018, 15:25
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

The first part of my reply concerns the two other people interested in the property. This is a common trick used by agents to pressure you into buying. It's a significant investment you are making (and my apologies if you're a seasoned property investor) and you should never be pressured into making this sort of decision.

The second thing they will often try is to get you to pay a small deposit, say CHF 10,000 into their account to show your seriousness. Never ever do this, but pay it into the account of a lawyer of your choosing (never theirs) with it being refundable in case you decide not to buy. If you pay it to them good luck in getting it back without a lawyer.

On to your question, and a possible alternative. The banks see great competition coming from the pension funds, and the pension funds are obliged to pay you the 1/2% or whatever even though they are paying negative rates on their cash deposits with the SNB. The bank who likely holds the fund will also lose commissions from the fund.

It's worth asking the bank to increase the mortgage using the fund as security. You keep the pension and it's benefits and they have the extra security they need. The math I'll leave to you but I hope this is of some help?
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Old 20.08.2018, 15:27
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Re: Questions on using pillar II withdrawal for property purchase

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Can this sort of withdrawal only be used to finance property in CH ?

I mean can i simply rock up to my pension fund ask for 200k to buy a holiday flat in France? Does one have to live in it for example?
Usually it's only for buying property in Switzerland.
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