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Old 08.02.2018, 10:35
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Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Good morning everyone,

I have top-floor flat and I'm looking for a good company to renovate my terrace (Dachterrasse), which includes:
- removing the current tiles (all broken and I had a leak problem with the neighbour downstaits last year, which is now fixed) and everything up to the "skin" (I mean the layer that makes it waterproof)
- redo this layer if needed
- lay new tiles (I'm looking at 60*60*2 cm tiles which I would like to have put on supports rather than gravel)

Any recommendations? Would you know a company that could do everything? if not, how would you recommend me to approach this project?
So far I've contacted a few Plattenleger and only one came and made an offer, but he wants to put the tiles on gravel and I don't want that.

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Old 09.02.2018, 20:31
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

HI ,

Could you please share how the old tiles are placed .
Are the old tiles are placed on gravel ?
The tiles which you want to place on the balcony ,are suppose to go with plastic feet ,and square spacers .
If you have a gravel underneath it will take some time to prepare the surface and place the new feets property .
Could you please make some pictures, than i will give you some guidance which you could follow . And make everything more clear from you .
You are quite far otherwise will be happy to help you with the project .

Have a good evening .

Good luck .

Peter
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Old 10.02.2018, 11:16
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Hi Peter

Thanks for wanting to help, it's much appreciated.
The current tiles are small ones (40x40), and there were probably glued on some sort of soft concrete, with joins in between tiles.
But after almost 20 years it's all broken, no wonder my terrace is exposed to wind, rain etc so I need something more robust.

I know it's gonna be a big work (and investment) but I want to redo everything properly, so I will need to have the layer of soft concrete that is currently under the tiles completely removed and the surface prepared to put new tiles on these plastic things.
The potential issue is that when removing the concrete it is very possible that the "skin" underneath (which makes the whole thing waterproof) will get damaged, so I need a company able to check it and fix it if needed.

That's why I doubt I will manage to have everything done by one single company, although it would of course be ideal.
I can send you pics by pm if you'd like. My terrace is 116m2

Thanks again for you help!
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Old 10.02.2018, 14:50
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Not an ideal time of the year to do this work, I would plan now for work in spring. I would be contacting a few Dachdeckers to inspect it in situ. The clean replacement of the tiles is fairly straightforward but still a lot of work and Peter is your man for the work, I can recommend his work.
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Old 10.02.2018, 18:29
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Thank you. Exactly, I am investigating it now in order to have it done in the spring and be able to enjoy ma terrace this summer :-)
Thanks for the advice. I was hesitating to contact a Dachdecker because if possible/if not needed I would prefer not to redo completely the Abdichtung (is that the word?). But you're right, as an expert will need to check it anyway it could be a way to start.
I somehow understood from Peter that he felt he is too far away to do the work... but maybe it is negotiable ;-)
I'll send him a pm

Thanks again!
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Old 10.02.2018, 19:37
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

You should consider a gardening firm or a Tiefbau firm for this work.

Having just completed extensive outdoor work at our home I advise you to get several quotes and make sure they explain exactly how the work will be done. Be sure to confirm how long the work is guaranteed.

If you own then you should be able to deduct this work from your taxes.

A number of years ago we renovated a terrace (much smaller than yours) but rather than stones we put down a synthetic material which resembled wood. We had the work done by a company in Germany. It was a lot less work than setting stones and looked really nice. Might be something to consider.
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Old 11.02.2018, 17:51
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Thanks for the advice.
I had thought about trying a german or a french company, for sure it would be cheaper but I donít want to take any risks. I want an established company that works under Swiss norms and regulations.
The only offer I have so far is from a Plattenleger who would work with a Baumeister for this work, they both came to see the terrasse and I am waiting for the offer from the Baumeister.
The other 2 Plattenleger who came so far said it was a too big work for them (I suspect they got scared because I told them there have been leaks in the past).
Itís not easy :-(
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Old 12.02.2018, 08:18
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

What the Plattenleger suggested you ?
Are the going to place the tiles with a glue on the top of the existing ones .
Because if we are talking for the same plates 60x60x2cm then the don't have to be placed on glue .
And in the future if there is any leaks they can be easily removed .
Could you please attach some photos of the balcony .
Thanks and good luck with the Baumeister .

Best regards
Peter
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Old 12.02.2018, 09:36
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

First, I presume you're part of a condominium, in which case if the concrete needs replacing the condo is liable. Basically any leaks are paid by all the owners and the condo is liable up to and including the concrete, and this would come from the renovation fund you pay towards.

However you would need to get the condo's permission to undertake this work and it may have to be agreed at a condominial meeting.

Assuming all is ok it would be a false economy not to replace the plastic sheeting between the insulation and the concrete. It's unlikely the management company would allow this work to be done without the sheet being replaced.

As you said you have two options, do it yourself with contractors or appoint a general contractor to do it for you. It's quite easy to DIY but remember also the logistics of getting the materials to the roof, parking of contractors vehicles etc. In our case for a 200 sqm terrace we did it ourselves and had the materials helicoptered in, including for the placing of the cement.

A general contractor will likely add 30 - 40 % to the cost so you have to calculate the best option for you.
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Old 12.02.2018, 12:02
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Thanks for your replies and for your help

@ Peter:
I'd like to send you pics by private message but somehow I don't see how to that (am feeling stupid but I'm new on this platform), could you explain me how to do?
Otherwise the Plattenleger made me an offer with tiles on Splitt, which is not what I want and what I had asked for (I sent him an email yesterday to ask him for another offer with Stelzlager). The current tiles are all broken and it would also not work in terms of thickness to put new tiles on top, so the plan is to remove everything (tiles and the soft concrete underneath) and put new tiles on Stelzlager so that they can easily be removed if there is a problem

@ Luganopirate:
Yes, I'm part of a condominium, and was planning to inform everyone about the work I am planning, but I did not know that the condominium is liable up to and including the concrete. So in my case (see above) would you think the renovation fund should pay for removing the soft concrete that is under the current tiles? who would pay to replace the plastic sheeting between the insulation and the concrete?
No way I will do the work myself, it's just too much and I don't have the time. I'm just trying to find the right companies to do the work (and the more I think about it the more I'm tempted to hire an architect who will coordinate everything)
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Old 12.02.2018, 12:32
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

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@ Luganopirate:
Yes, I'm part of a condominium, and was planning to inform everyone about the work I am planning, but I did not know that the condominium is liable up to and including the concrete. So in my case (see above) would you think the renovation fund should pay for removing the soft concrete that is under the current tiles? who would pay to replace the plastic sheeting between the insulation and the concrete?
You must absolutely inform the condominium's management company. If you don't they can stop the work and hold you liable.

Basically when you buy an apartment you own the inside of your flat, the structure belongs to all the owners. In your case the condominium is responsible for everything up to and including the concrete. There is some debate as to if that also includes the tiles but I'll leave that.

Did the condominium pay for the work related to the water leak? Depending on where the leak was the condo is responsible, but if you paid for the repairs without informing them then you're unlikely to get the money back.

When they repaired the leak did they touch the insulation or the plastic sheet? Maybe they replaced it, so you should first find this out.

You may have some arguments with the condo over this. They may say well it doesn't need doing so we won't pay. But you have the right to enjoy your space and fix the tiles. My suggestion is first speak to the management company. They can fill you in. If it's all no,no, no, then remove the tiles, take plenty of photo's / videos of the state of the concrete and go from there.

Get the MC on side and maybe talk to some of the more reasonable owners (if any!). Good luck.
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Old 12.02.2018, 13:09
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Thanks a lot, it definitely makes sense and I'm now wondering how come I did not think myself of contacting the Verwaltung early on

I did not pay any of the work to fix the leaks, I think the insurance of the building paid it and if not everything the condominium paid the rest. They never tried to have me pay it.

What do you mean by insulation? when fixing the problem they had to fix the plastic sheet I think, but if I manage to send you pics you will be able to see it yourself and explain me ;-) It was only a tiny part of the whole thing though.

Other owners don't have such a problem, the other 2 who have a Dachterrasse already have tiles on Stelzlager and no problem. There's only one who may be able to help but I will avoid it for other reasons
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Old 12.02.2018, 13:19
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

I think you can take the photos and then add a Dropbox or Microsoft Cloud Link which i can then access. I won't be able to see anything else so don't worry.

The roof of the flat below the terrace will be made up as follows: (some specs can vary depending on several factors)

Concrete roof of the flat then,
A +- 10cm rubber sheet
A +-35cm layer of insulation (fire resistant)
A 1mm plastic sheet often layed 2 or 3 ply
Then the concrete
Then the tiles or other covering
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Old 12.02.2018, 14:05
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Ok, thanks.
Sending you a link with a few pics of when they fixed the problem last year. It should give you an idea if how the whole thing is made
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Old 13.02.2018, 16:19
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

The repairs seems fine. You can see the insulation below and the plastic sheet fitted on top. Then you see the concrete and the white is tile adhesive.

For your new floor you could fit tiles over the existing ones depending on how flush the tiles are to the doors. Otherwise take off the old tiles and adhesive, apply new adhesive and fix the new tiles. It's a relatively straightforward job.
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Old 13.02.2018, 16:57
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Thanks, but I really don't want to put similar tiles (40x40 and very thin) tiles as I currently have, all the companies who came said this was stupid as my terrace is so exposed to wind and rain that for sure they will break and fall off very quickly.
And putting new tiles on top of the current ones is also not an option, it's currently exactly flush to the doors so I need to remove them
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Old 14.02.2018, 00:35
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

60 x 60 or 75 x75 should not be a problem, but the thickness might if your current tiles are already flush to the door as the larger tiles are usually thicker. You'll have to check that.

It's ridiculous to say the wind and rain could cause the smaller tiles to come loose. If properly fixed they will withstand the worst of the Basel weather.
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Old 16.02.2018, 20:27
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

Hi,

I know someone who can help you with the terrace. This guy is from Poland and he lives here and works for furniture shop but he takes additional work in clients houses.
He does everything in the house and does it well. Let me know if you are still looking for help. I think he could come to take a look and discuss what can be done.
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Old 17.02.2018, 07:30
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

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Hi,

I know someone who can help you with the terrace. This guy is from Poland and he lives here and works for furniture shop but he takes additional work in clients houses.
He does everything in the house and does it well. Let me know if you are still looking for help. I think he could come to take a look and discuss what can be done.
I am not sure a backyarder is best in this situation given the potential problems if it is not done correctly, which will not show for a few years.
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Old 17.02.2018, 08:04
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Re: Looking for good company to renovate terrace (BS/BL)

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Thanks, but I really don't want to put similar tiles (40x40 and very thin) tiles as I currently have, all the companies who came said this was stupid as my terrace is so exposed to wind and rain that for sure they will break and fall off very quickly.
And putting new tiles on top of the current ones is also not an option, it's currently exactly flush to the doors so I need to remove them
It is good you know what you like but locations like yours need careful planning. With Dach terraces and waterproofing drainage is critical, some have built-in fall to drainage points but others are flat and have extra strong waterproofing. So you are talking about two different things, one, potential problems with waterproofing and two, installing a surface that will last in your conditions/exposure.

Drainage being the key here which is either over or under the surface finish, the height from the waterproof layer to your doorways is a limiting factor by the sounds of things. If you lay tiles with plastic corners/feet directly on the waterproof layer you need to ensure there is absolutely no pooling of water on the roof (ie the roof has good falls to the drainage points). If this is not the case then gluing the tiles down might be better as the water is kept above the waterproofing by the tiles but this needs a strong non flexible base. (ie bitumen mat direct on solid concrete)

The other option is WPC (wood plastic composite) decking which uses aluminium under construction, which in low profile will have a total minimum height of 32mm being 12mm under and 20mm board thickness. This can be a good option as the surface redirects a lot of the water and still has good drainage underneath. All WPCs are not created equally, like wood (WPCs can be up to 75% wood) they grow and shrink with the seasons but this is generally not a problem if laid correctly. You have access to a greater range of colours, sizes and qualities if it comes from a wood supply company rather than a hardware store, prices are not much different if purchased by a company but are higher for an individual. The advantage is the deck and waterproof layer can move and flex independently of each other so there is tension applied to the waterproofing which can lead to failure of joints and leaks.
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