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  #21  
Old 24.05.2018, 12:25
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

There was dirt inside the grooves of the kitchen floor. They said 150 Fr is temporary and will be returned if the cleaning agency comes and cleans it.

The cleaning agency came back and cleaned. But, since they know that I have no way to confirm if it was cleaned properly, they are just charging 150 Fr anyway.
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  #22  
Old 24.05.2018, 12:32
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Still not answering questions....
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  #23  
Old 24.05.2018, 12:35
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

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Yes, I understand, but still no call for such tone. I can see he is a forum legend, so must be living here for long and know about all this stuff.

It's not that straightforward for someone who doesn't have that much experience.

Still nothing justifies a tone like that!
Refocus. "forum legend" is a pathetic automatic garbage generated because I wasted numerous days in posting mostly crap on this forum.

My tone is very relevant since you are especting free support yet you don't even show basic consideration by providing sufficient information.

As I always say, you do not like my tone? go and pay for the services of a professional. They will surely honey-coat you (and charge you hundred/thousands of francs in the process).

No, I learnt all these stuffs on my own, on my own time and after numerous costly mistakes. And yes, I did empowered some agencies at some point and I deeply regret it and I am ashamed of myself. I also fought back on other aspects and got them to back down. In all that I wish someone would have "used that tone" on me to make me realize sooner the extend of my stupid actions and to give me a serious wake up call. I'm the only one who did that to myself.

Anyway stop wasting time with "my tone" you are entirely acting as a victim instead of bouncing, taking the useful information and fight back.

Unlike some others, I know you are not necessarily a lost war, despite all battles you have already screwed/mishandled.

Inexperience is never an excuse, you had all cards in hand to spend a few minutes/hours to be more cautious and you should NEVER sign something you don't agree (like I think you done with the handover, assuming since you don't even say).

As for your recommendation, it's appreciated yet I will not change a thing. I'm not here to be liked or to befriend you. I gave you help in a certain unpleasant way, appreciate it as it's free and that's all you are going to get.
You want more? ----> Professional.

I understand it's tempting to play the victim and act offended because...clearly I did not use a diplomatic touch, yet, it's amazing how people are always ungrateful.
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  #24  
Old 24.05.2018, 12:44
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Yes, I was checking my documents and I did sign the agreement. I signed it because I was starting a new job in a different city the next day, and I wouldn't have been able to afford (timewise) to come back to Lausanne for a while.

I didn't know the consequences of not signing the document at that point. And, everything in French makes life a lot more difficult.

As, I said I clearly appreciate your answer and honestly, I felt like you must have experienced it yourself.

Still no need for tone like that. I learn from facts, and I have learnt my lessons already. I will join the https://www.mieterverband.ch/ in Zurich right away.

Last question: Can I release their name here. If that saves even one person, it's worth it. From the reviews I see online, seems like they have done this multiple multiple times.
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  #25  
Old 24.05.2018, 12:55
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

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Yes, I was checking my documents and I did sign the agreement. I signed it because I was starting a new job in a different city the next day, and I wouldn't have been able to afford (timewise) to come back to Lausanne for a while.
1) What did you sign EXACTLY? Where they any markings of defects?*

2) No it's best you do NOT name them here since you are accusing them of SCAMMING and are most likely unable to prove it. You would most likely give them the stick to beat you (again).
What you can do is to post a new topic sticking to facts and there, you are allowed to mention them- Seeing how not careful you are, probably best you seek help in doing that or simply don't.


*even if you signed some defects, it does not mean you give them free access to charge you anything, at any cost. For example the additional cleaning charge appears easy to prove it was not required, especially if you have bills or evidence you use a professional cleaning company and they come back AFTER the handover for "final cleaning".

What about the other alleged defects, you are also going to give up on them? Are you familiar with lifetime of items? have you checked?
Was it in worse state than on the documented and signed "moving in handover"?


Going further, do you have anything brown to stick under their noses?
Have they always taken care of the property as they should? Did you suffer any "loss of use" due to something you officially reported to them? (it's called "perte d'usage locatif", like construction noise, construction dust, abnormal neighboor abuses...)? Any irregularity in the "inspection" (before/after)?
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  #26  
Old 24.05.2018, 13:05
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Thanks for your answer. Let me explain all the charges in detail:

1) 150 Fr - for cleaning the floor and the walls. They said that it needs to be cleaned further (although they were already quite clean). They specifically complained about the grooves between the tiles of the kitchen floor.

The handover company mentioned that they will come back and clean it. However, I don't know what kind of job the handover cleaning company did.

The agency told me last week, that it was not enough, and I would still have to pay the cleaning fees. After sending multiple mails for receipts, now the agency has replied (just now) saying that they didn't hire a professional cleaner, but it was done by concierge (see, scam).

2) 150 Fr- fridge door for the freezer part that broke. The door was too tight and I had complained to them. They had sent a repair person, but he didn't repair it properly. At some point, it got stuck and broke when I tried to open it. Again, they say that it's my fault that I didn't inform them that it wasn't fixed properly. I think 150 is too much as it was a small fridge. Again, they have provided no receipts.

3) 200 Fr - for washing the mattress which got dirty. Nothing special, just normal use.

5) 30 Fr - for changing two bulbs that stopped working.

I signed the etat des lieux which mentions these prices. I understand that I should have been more careful, but I had paperwork from 5 different places (new job, new permit, new apartment, old apartment, leaving Lausanne), coincide in one week, and I didn't have time to do everything with perfect care.


The lesson I had already learnt is to report issues to them (like I should have done with the fridge) as often as I face them.

Btw, just to tell you, my stay at apartment coincided with last year of PhD and it was a crazy crazy time..workwise!
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  #27  
Old 24.05.2018, 13:06
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Additionnally, is there any "warranty" in your cleaning company contract?
I saw some professionals are offering a "etat des lieux garantie".

If so, you could let them fight also for the 150chf.

here is some information about Etat des lieux (in GVA):
http://www.asloca.ch/geneve/2017/09/...eux-de-sortie/ It shows it's possible to invalidate the signed agreement if there's any "essential error" (mistake).

It also reminds about the life time of items.

If relevant, it would be easy to add in written complain that you are contesting the charges and you want the exact evidence of purchase of XXX item so that you can evaluate the amount due. Without that, you have x evidence that it's end of life and your responsability is void and therefore you will not pay for XXX.


Just to be clear, I helped you not because you complained and acted as a victim, simply because I like even less the alleged abusers agencies.

Good luck now you are on your own.

PS: it's possible that you have insurance, usually they take a "franchise" (excess?) and anyway due to the relatively low amounts they would blindly pay the agency because they are lazy and it would cost them more to contest. Seems fair that you kick them back yourself and grant yourself the pleasure of it.


1) I already said, easy to contest.

2) How old was the fridge? Ask bill of purchase. Also you informed them it was faulty and that the defect is direct consequence of the poor fixing.

Anyway since you signed an agreement, you WOULD have to do opposition due to "erreur essentielle" (essential mistake).

3) I'm not familiar with that, a rented mattress?? again, what was its lifetime? Seems more like a disguised service.

4) There's no 4).

5) Forget about the bulbs, clearly not worth it.

6) Charcoal filter: forget it, it was your responsability and they do check. PS: lazy, it would have been extremely easy for you to find it and buy it yourself, would have cost you 1/3rd easily. Your bad here. You can ask for the bill to annoy them and eventually hope they overcharge but they could justify some rubbish professional bill to fit it in. Also since you signed an agreement you'd have to contest it like said before.

Seems you can do something.

PS: you screw up, especially for the fridge, bulbs, so drop the excuses you are wasting your time here.

PS: That's my definitive goodbye and goodluck now (even if you mostly don't deserve it due to numerous laziness and mistakes).

Last edited by CorsebouTheReturn; 24.05.2018 at 13:20.
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  #28  
Old 24.05.2018, 13:08
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

And, they also charged 150 Fr for changing the charcoal filters over the induction stoves. apparently, it's some special charcoal filters that only they can buy. Lol

Again, no receipts for anything.

As I mentioned, all the bad stuff happened because I didn't know the consequence of not signing the etat des lieux at that point.
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  #29  
Old 24.05.2018, 13:12
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Yes, I have the guarantee from the cleaning company. However, I have to see if they will reimburse me. I first have to get the receipts from the housing agency.
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  #30  
Old 24.05.2018, 13:15
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

For anyone who read this thread until here and is wondering which agency is this. I recommend to google your agency before you rent an apartment or (already renting). if it has very poor reviews (~ 1*) with multiple people complaining about scams, you have hit either my agency or something equally evil.
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  #31  
Old 24.05.2018, 14:18
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Why do people pay for things without receipt?

OP listed like 5 things he paid for, no receipt from the agency he's renting from. Am I expected to do the same (haven't had to pay for anything yet)?
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  #32  
Old 24.05.2018, 15:06
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

I didn't actually pay anything. However, I did sign a document mentioning that those charges could be deducted.

It mainly happened because it was my first time, but seems like business as usual for the agency. Of course, I will be a lot more careful from the next time onward.

Also, the fact that I had to move to Zurich in a few hours did repress my ability to fight back, as I didn't want to leave paperwork hanging at Lausanne.

That's why I complained about the tone CorsebouTheReturn (although he was extremely helpful). You may not expect this kind of stuff if it's your first time.

I highly recommend googling your agency before you for etat des lieux. If someone is unfortunate enough to be dealing with my agency, their reviews on their Google page will definitely raise an alarm ...

There are like 25 of them and all 1 stars with multiple people complaining of such scams. I wish I had read that before I left the apartment.
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  #33  
Old 10.06.2018, 08:14
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

This is a common trick that Swiss landlords use, and it is almost always the Household insurance that they are after, not you directly. That way they can invent a fantasy bill, and claim thousands from your insurance. Many foreigners who are not fluent in Swiss German would rather suck up the selbstbehalt of a few hundred Franks and leave it to their insurance to cover, than battle it out with the Landlord.
We recently moved just down the road after being in our old place for 16 years. Shock and horror, 3 weeks later, the landlord starts writing us threatening letters, claiming this and that was broken, and so on. After the first letter we contacted our Rechtsschutzversicherung, and they took care of him.
That did not stop him writing us more letteres, inventing more damage, and even hanging a poster-like letter in the "gang" of the old house saying that we had Hausverbot, because we left him with 10K in uncovered damages
Of course we did not, and of course he ended each letter off by asking us to please contact our insurance and let them settle it with him. 8That is what he was after, the old decietful fart)

That we did not do either, and our Lawyer (through DAS Rechsschutzver.) just fowarded us his letters as they came in, with the mention to ignore them and him.
That we did, and he has now given up.


When you leave the rented house, the landlord has 2 working days to file a complaint with you about any damages. If he does not do it in that time, he has no further claims. He also needs to be able to prove that you damaged something.


My advice to any foreigner moving into a rented place, is; on the day you move it, take photos of any damages, everything down to the smalest scratch, and then copy them onto a SD card or disc, and mail them to the lardlord. That is allowed, and encouraged by the mieterverband as well. You have, I think, up to 3 weeks after you move in to do this.


Having someone there from the mieterverband is also helpful, on moving in day, I guess, espcially if you can`t speak the language.


Storal of the mory, COVER YOUR ASS, because it has become a growing trend with Swiss landlords to scam foreigners for damages that are non-existant. They are after your insurance. The insurance compaiens will not even send someone to look at what they claim, instead just pay out!


It happened to the people who live across the road from us last year. Lardlord was bitching about a couple hundred Franks, and a year later we find out that their insurance paid out 10 000 Franks, yes ten grand!!!


This is how they renovate for free, and they do take advantage of people who cannot speak fluent S/German. Of course not all, but believe me, we just expirienced this after 16 years, and we had a really wonderful relationship with our landlord for all of those years. Even on moving out day, all was fine and well, he even invited us across the road for wine and a teary fairwell - the old fart - and then turns around a few weeks later and tries to shaft us.


This particular landlord has over 30 properties, so you can do the Math. If he screws 30 people for a few grand each year......
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  #34  
Old 18.06.2018, 14:18
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Thanks for the update.

Final status:

Mieterverband told me that I can't do much now since I signed the document. She mentioned that in Switzerland, you never need to sign anything that you don't want to sign. And, if I had not signed it, things would have been different.
Although, she told me that I got out cheaply.

Also, I managed to get 55% of the claims back from the household insurance. so, overall not that bad for me. lost out on around 350 chf (including 200 deductible for HI).

Will be more careful in future.
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  #35  
Old 18.06.2018, 14:42
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

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Also, the fact that I had to move to Zurich in a few hours did repress my ability to fight back, as I didn't want to leave paperwork hanging at Lausanne.
I know it is crying over split milk. But for the next time, think about this practical invention: A piece of paper can be place inside an other artistically folded and glued piece of paper. It kind of envelopes the first paper neatly so that not everyone can read what is written on the first paper. On this enveloping paper people can write the name of an other person and some numbers and letters, glue a little piece of paper on it and then drop the paper in the paper with number and letter and a other little piece of paper into a yellow box. Then like by magic the paper will appear a few days later in a box very nearby the person named on the paper lives.

Now, what should we call the artistically folded and glued paper, the tiny paper which is glued on it, the yellow box, as well as the service it self?
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  #36  
Old 18.06.2018, 15:14
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Thanks for the update.

Next time don't do that And give yourself enough time for a proper handover.
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  #37  
Old 18.06.2018, 16:59
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

Yes, lessons learnt. I also signed up for the Mietverband insurance that will pay for the deductible next time.

I think I got out quite cheaply given this was my first time haha.
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  #38  
Old 18.06.2018, 17:37
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Re: Handover apartment in Lausanne -- Terrible experience

I had at etat de lieu when I moved from my apartment some years back. Agent who did the job complemented me on the state of the place and noted only one thing. One of the knobs on the radiator was missing. He said he didn't think the landlord would care as everything else was perfect. I offered to replace it myself as I had seen the exact same ones at the Coop brico, but he said no. But he noted it on the form and we both signed.

The knob was missing when I moved in, but not noted at that time. I didn't think it was that important.

Three months after moving I got an invoice from a plumbing company for the installation of a CHF20 knob with labour and displacement etc. costs of another CHF150.

Lesson learned.
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