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  #81  
Old 18.06.2018, 13:53
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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To sum up this discussion. Buying property for own living is risky and rarely a good investment decision.
You didn't sum up. You gave your opinion. Massive difference.
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  #82  
Old 18.06.2018, 15:03
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Indeed. I think it is not the vehicle, but the driver that is important.
I think for the John Does this thread is about it's both. The best driver is useless without a vehicle to steer, as is the best vehicle without a driver. Plus, all driver/vehicle pairs require roads, which have been built by other people.

I don't think a comparison of stocks vs live-in property is fair. They're too different, and many will claim the latter isn't seen as an investment to begin with (though I highly doubt they'd buy if that was a high-probability loss).
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  #83  
Old 18.06.2018, 15:54
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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The typical non-financials company has 30-50% equity so there's an inherent 2-3x leverage. Add the leverage used by financial companies if you buy the SP500 and you're probably beyond 5x territory.
Leverage of S&P 500 is 52%, source Fundsmith Equity shareholders equity v Fundsmith companies of 37%. So 2 times leverage not 5

Edit interest cover is 7 times so equivalent of 14% of earnings (17 times or 5.8% of earnings in the Fundsmith portfolio))

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 18.06.2018 at 16:27.
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  #84  
Old 18.06.2018, 16:05
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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I think for the John Does this thread is about it's both. The best driver is useless without a vehicle to steer, as is the best vehicle without a driver. Plus, all driver/vehicle pairs require roads, which have been built by other people.

I don't think a comparison of stocks vs live-in property is fair. They're too different, and many will claim the latter isn't seen as an investment to begin with (though I highly doubt they'd buy if that was a high-probability loss).
it's not so much a road/no road situation as much as whether it's a manual transmission or automatic transmission.
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  #85  
Old 18.06.2018, 19:20
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Uruguay, Panama, Colombia, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Hungary.

All smallish countries who are presently underperforming compared to their true potential but can easily, and probably will, fix that.
Why not Spain and Portugal?

I have never been there but heard good stuff about Costa Rica too.
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Old 18.06.2018, 19:43
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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it's not so much a road/no road situation as much as whether it's a manual transmission or automatic transmission.
And emissions. Think of the children.
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  #87  
Old 18.06.2018, 19:44
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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The typical non-financials company has 30-50% equity so there's an inherent 2-3x leverage. Add the leverage used by financial companies if you buy the SP500 and you're probably beyond 5x territory.
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Leverage of S&P 500 is 52%, source Fundsmith Equity shareholders equity v Fundsmith companies of 37%. So 2 times leverage not 5

Edit interest cover is 7 times so equivalent of 14% of earnings (17 times or 5.8% of earnings in the Fundsmith portfolio))
Points well made both of you. Well spotted!

There is a way to quantitively compare different assets I’m sure. Xynth is normally good at this kind of stuff with him being a bit of quant...

Sharpe ratios anyone?
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  #88  
Old 18.06.2018, 20:19
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Points well made both of you. Well spotted!

There is a way to quantitively compare different assets Iím sure. Xynth is normally good at this kind of stuff with him being a bit of quant...

Sharpe ratios anyone?
Iím off to paint the garden fence.
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  #89  
Old 18.06.2018, 20:22
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Why not Spain and Portugal?

I have never been there but heard good stuff about Costa Rica too.
Maybe UK on the list post-brexit
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Old 18.06.2018, 20:25
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Maybe UK on the list post-brexit
I did specify decent healthcare
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  #91  
Old 18.06.2018, 20:31
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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I did specify decent healthcare
There's decent healthcare if you pay for it (via insurance like here).
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Old 18.06.2018, 20:32
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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I did specify decent healthcare
With the Brexit dividend the NHS is gonna be mega! Hell I might consider retiring in Blackpool! 😂
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  #93  
Old 18.06.2018, 22:15
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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A friend of mine who is an estate asset manager for a large company unequivocally told me it is not a good idea to buy property in ZŁrich unless you buy something quite central in a desirable area. He said there are so many new builds popping up around the outskirts of ZŁrich that when the interest rates inevitably rise over the next few years there is a good chance you can lose money as house prices also start to fall.

As such I reckon I will (unless I find some amazing deal in the meantime) continue to rent for the next decade or two and aim to build a nice little next egg through savings, investments and inheritance that will eventually allow me to more comfortably afford a better place without digging into my pension fund.
"estate asset managers for a large company" = kind of like an economist who is 100% correct in predicting 37 out of the last 2 recessions...
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  #94  
Old 19.06.2018, 09:51
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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"estate asset managers for a large company" = kind of like an economist who is 100% correct in predicting 37 out of the last 2 recessions...
I generally take into account the opinions of people who are far more knowledgeable and experienced on any given subject than I am. He does property purchasing and valuation for a living and is very successful, so I see no reason not to take his opinions seriously (which is not the same as blindly taking it as gospel) while doing my own research.
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Old 19.06.2018, 10:09
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

It's amazing to see a thread I created reaches the 5th page
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Old 19.06.2018, 11:15
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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It's amazing to see a thread I created reaches the 5th page
3rd page here.

But this is Ticino.

Tom
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Old 19.06.2018, 12:37
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Leverage of S&P 500 is 52%, source Fundsmith Equity shareholders equity v Fundsmith companies of 37%. So 2 times leverage not 5

Edit interest cover is 7 times so equivalent of 14% of earnings (17 times or 5.8% of earnings in the Fundsmith portfolio))
Of course interest coverage is high in these times of ultralow interest rates.

I stand corrected WRT to leverage. However, many financial products are kept off the balance sheet; that is all fine until one single element in a chain of unregulated product fails, as demonstrated ten years ago.
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Old 19.06.2018, 19:00
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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It's amazing to see a thread I created reaches the 5th page
Housing always stirs up a lot of discussions because owning a home is very close to peopleís hearts.

Many people have contemplated buying a house at some point, some end up buying, some not and itís always interesting to hear the stories.

To buy or not to buy that is the question.

It certainly isnít as straight forward as it might sound, for the majority of people itís the biggest purchase they will ever make, mostly with borrowed money. Get it right and you will reap the rewards, get it wrong and you will suffer the severe consequences.
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Old 19.06.2018, 20:04
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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It certainly isnít as straight forward as it might sound, for the majority of people itís the biggest purchase they will ever make, mostly with borrowed money. Get it right and you will reap the rewards, get it wrong and you will suffer the severe consequences.
Apart from Meloncollie's woes with her house (or the neighbourhood), I haven't heard of many stories on here of people suffering any 'severe consequences'.

I have read many stories on here of people who through renting, have been made to feel pretty miserable through shared washing facilities, shared garages and unreasonable landlords.
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Old 19.06.2018, 20:24
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Re: Property Ladder in Switzerland?

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Apart from Meloncollie's woes with her house (or the neighbourhood), I haven't heard of many stories on here of people suffering any 'severe consequences'.
The people who suffer from these kind of things tend to suffer in silence as they probably feel partly to blame. And letís face it, itís not a ďsexyĒ story.

On an unsympathetic forum like this they will be told that it was their fault for not doing enough research, for not seeing it coming, it was obvious they would say. The last things you would want to hear as someone who has lost money or was in negative equity or had their house repossessed by the bank.

If you saved up for 10 years to put a deposit on a house, only to have your equity wiped off and then some, would you broadcast it on here? I donít think I would...

Survivorship bias at its best.
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