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Old 12.09.2018, 01:07
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Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

Hello everybody,


Even after reading a lot of posts I did not find the info I am going to ask you about so I decided to register to do so

We are 3 people living in an apartment (canton Zurich). All our names and signatures appear in the contract. The contract is with a real estate agency, a big one. We have 4 months of kundi

The case is: if 2 tenants want to leave but the third one refuses to leave the apartment, how can we deal with this situation ?

As far as I know we all have to sign the contract termination with the real estate agency but I can't believe and I don't want to believe that my colleague and I cant leave the apartment because the third one refuses to leave

Thank you for your help!
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Old 12.09.2018, 07:52
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

Isn't just a case of you two giving notice of termination and the third person picking up the full rental costs since they're still staying in the apartment?
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Old 12.09.2018, 09:57
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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Isn't just a case of you two giving notice of termination and the third person picking up the full rental costs since they're still staying in the apartment?
I don't really know to be honest

That's why I ask because I have found the following:

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...ch-mieter.html


I extracted this from this page and translated into English:
Quote:
The letter for the apartment notice

Send your cancellation letter to the landlord! If you are in a hurry, you can personally hand them over to the landlord or steward and have them sign a copy of their letter confirming that they received the letter at the time.
In the case of a joint rental agreement, all co-tenants must sign the notice of termination.
Join rental agreement = WG (I guess)

So it looks like we are in a trap, FOREVER ? What if we present new tenants to take over our rooms and contract but the third one in the flat always refuses to sign ??
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Old 12.09.2018, 10:49
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

No, you aren't trapped forever but if the third party to the rental agreement completely refuses, the only alternative you have is to go to the Schlichtungsbehörde.

If you speak enough German or know someone who does, I recommend going to the "Rechtsauskunft in Mietsache" - free legal advice organized by the Zürich courts: http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sauskunft.html

Maybe with concrete information in hand, you can convince the recalcitrant third of the error of his or her ways.
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Old 12.09.2018, 10:52
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

Maybe I misunderstand something, but as the contract is signed by all three, why do 2 want the third person also to be deprived of the flat? Why should he/she have to move out because the other 2 want to?

Can´t you find 2 new persons to step into the contract?
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Old 12.09.2018, 10:57
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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Isn't just a case of you two giving notice of termination and the third person picking up the full rental costs since they're still staying in the apartment?
Luckily it's not that simple. Imagine being the 3rd person yourself and suddenly your rent is going to triple, a lot of people would completely freak out.
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Old 12.09.2018, 11:51
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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No, you aren't trapped forever but if the third party to the rental agreement completely refuses, the only alternative you have is to go to the Schlichtungsbehörde.

If you speak enough German or know someone who does, I recommend going to the "Rechtsauskunft in Mietsache" - free legal advice organized by the Zürich courts: http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sauskunft.html

Maybe with concrete information in hand, you can convince the recalcitrant third of the error of his or her ways.
Thank you Ziger. What is this exactly ? is it some legal authority or a court, that will do some legal statement and decide whether we can leave the flat or not by explaining them the actual issue ? Would their decision be above the law ? Do we have to pay for this process ?

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Maybe I misunderstand something, but as the contract is signed by all three, why do 2 want the third person also to be deprived of the flat? Why should he/she have to move out because the other 2 want to?

Can´t you find 2 new persons to step into the contract?
Even if I find them, the final decision will be on the three of us and if the third person rejects to sign, then we will always be in a loop !! the real estate agency just responded me that they can't do anything because they always need all the signatures and we have to agree by our own. the real estate company said "I am sorry". Anything else. I am really freaking out here about the law

The contracts here are forever or there is some timeline where they can be reviewed and just terminate them ? but still, we will continue needing the 3 signatures ! This is a never ending loop !

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Luckily it's not that simple. Imagine being the 3rd person yourself and suddenly your rent is going to triple, a lot of people would completely freak out.
Well, in that case the 3rd person should accept that the others want to leave, otherwise what ? will we always be there forever ? what about the living together and the comfort ?


The only & final solution is the court or what ?


Thank you people for your replies
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Old 12.09.2018, 12:40
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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Thank you Ziger. What is this exactly ? is it some legal authority or a court, that will do some legal statement and decide whether we can leave the flat or not by explaining them the actual issue ? Would their decision be above the law ? Do we have to pay for this process ?



Even if I find them, the final decision will be on the three of us and if the third person rejects to sign, then we will always be in a loop !! the real estate agency just responded me that they can't do anything because they always need all the signatures and we have to agree by our own. the real estate company said "I am sorry". Anything else. I am really freaking out here about the law

The contracts here are forever or there is some timeline where they can be reviewed and just terminate them ? but still, we will continue needing the 3 signatures ! This is a never ending loop !



Well, in that case the 3rd person should accept that the others want to leave, otherwise what ? will we always be there forever ? what about the living together and the comfort ?


The only & final solution is the court or what ?


Thank you people for your replies
It is all about being reasonable.

Expecting the 3rd to leave the apartment since the two of you want to leave is unreasonable, and you will luckily not just make this happen.

The two of you finding 2 proper replacements to take over your part of the deal is what is reasonable, the 3rd person refusing this without proper grounds to do so makes him the unreasonable one and that is where you can start up the proces to get rid of the contract.

Perhaps the 3rd is willing to cancel if the two of you find him a replacement home and pay up for the costs of moving/cleaning.

And instead of getting angry at the 3rd and frustrated about the situation you should ask yourself why you never informed yourself about the laws before signing up a contract with other people.
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Old 12.09.2018, 12:46
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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Thank you Ziger. What is this exactly ? is it some legal authority or a court, that will do some legal statement and decide whether we can leave the flat or not by explaining them the actual issue ? Would their decision be above the law ? Do we have to pay for this process ?

This is a free legal advice 'clinic' offered by the Zürich courts. Lawyers registered in Zürich are required to provide their services when called upon by the courts. It is free but it is not extensive or detailed. It will help you understand what your legal options are.



If you were to file a claim with the Schlichtungsbehörde, there are no court costs in rental disputes. How you can do this or whether there is another way in your particular case is the kind of information a lawyer at the Rechtsauskunft could provide. There are special times for cases involving rental disputes. You should bring a copy of your rental agreement and any related documents. Note: legal advice is only offered in German. It may very well be that the lawyer you have can speak English, but it is not a given.
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Old 12.09.2018, 13:25
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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It is all about being reasonable.

Expecting the 3rd to leave the apartment since the two of you want to leave is unreasonable, and you will luckily not just make this happen.

The two of you finding 2 proper replacements to take over your part of the deal is what is reasonable, the 3rd person refusing this without proper grounds to do so makes him the unreasonable one and that is where you can start up the proces to get rid of the contract.

Perhaps the 3rd is willing to cancel if the two of you find him a replacement home and pay up for the costs of moving/cleaning.

And instead of getting angry at the 3rd and frustrated about the situation you should ask yourself why you never informed yourself about the laws before signing up a contract with other people.
Well, this is what we really want. To find another people to take over the rooms but if the 3rd refuses without any reasons, what do you mean by starting with the process to get rid of the contract ? if the 3rd does not want to sign, then nothing can be done, I can't bring in a new tenant and we stay in a never-ending loop ? I guess there might be some legal mechanisms to avoid this situation, right ? to unlock the situation in the case I find somebody. Do I need to go to court or this legal advice as Ziger mention below should be enough ?

And you are right; I didn't know how strong are the laws here in these cases. I think it is too much. This overprotection can be also overdamage...maybe too extremist/rigid laws?

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This is a free legal advice 'clinic' offered by the Zürich courts. Lawyers registered in Zürich are required to provide their services when called upon by the courts. It is free but it is not extensive or detailed. It will help you understand what your legal options are.



If you were to file a claim with the Schlichtungsbehörde, there are no court costs in rental disputes. How you can do this or whether there is another way in your particular case is the kind of information a lawyer at the Rechtsauskunft could provide. There are special times for cases involving rental disputes. You should bring a copy of your rental agreement and any related documents. Note: legal advice is only offered in German. It may very well be that the lawyer you have can speak English, but it is not a given.
Would the resolution of this "Schlichtungsbehörde" be enough to get rid of this situation and for me to leave if I find new tenants ? If not, the next step is the court directly ?
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Old 12.09.2018, 15:55
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

1) The three of you have to cancel your joint contract. No way out. As long as that contract is valid the three of you are jointly liable (Solidar-something) for the full amount of the rent. So if say, two of the co-tenants dissapear then the rental agency can claim the full rent from the 3rd co-tenant.

2) If your 3rd WG-buddy does not want to leave the apartment, the reasonable thing I believe would be to have him/her sign a new contract with the agency right after cancelling your current joint contract. He/she then can find two new people of his/her preference. Even "better" he/she can take on the full contract and sub-lease to anyone coming into the WG.

3) Never ever sign a contract with joint liabilities again

4) There is a mediation court / justice of the peace service to solve disputes amongst private persons. Another option would be to go to the Mieterverband (if you're a member) and have one of their people talk some sense into your pal.
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Old 12.09.2018, 16:53
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

"Funny" how many people already have their judgement ready about the 3rd person.

I read nowhere that they already have proposed new tenants or even spoke of that option, heck OP did not even know this was an option, I only read that they have proposed to cancel the contract and that the 3rd person is not willing to also cancel and move. (And why would he/she?)

I do read a topic about an OP not aware of rights and obligations who expected somebody else to give up his house since it benefits her financially, and who became pissed of due to this person now willing to do so.
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Old 12.09.2018, 17:10
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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"Funny" how many people already have their judgement ready about the 3rd person.

I read nowhere that they already have proposed new tenants or even spoke of that option, heck OP did not even know this was an option, I only read that they have proposed to cancel the contract and that the 3rd person is not willing to also cancel and move. (And why would he/she?)

I do read a topic about an OP not aware of rights and obligations who expected somebody else to give up his house since it benefits her financially, and who became pissed of due to this person now willing to do so.
Judgments are wrong as it can always be the contrary as we think. You are right

I did open this thread to know if this has happened before to any of you and to know if in the worst case scenario if there is an exit. I would say I am not judging but analyzing what all the possibilities are

I really appreciate all your replies though. They calmed me down and it looks there can be an agreement even using the legal way

I actually want to leave from the apartment by looking for another solvent tenant. Unfortunately the situation is the following:

The 3rd person said that he has to manage the visits that come to look for our rooms because since the 3rd will be the one that stays, the 3rd has to know and decide who stays in

This has come to a point that the 3rd does not even reply to my message about if I can help her by looking for another tenants. Actually the 3rd controls the announcements that we put and I don't know how the 3rd is dealing with them. the 3rd does not communicate at all

And of course I am starting becoming paranoid. Who is going to visit my flat ? by when ? will I be able to leave at some point ? will the 3rd give me a proper notice period that the 3rd has found a good tenant that suits in ?

Luckily as you said before, the signature of the three people is needed and I can even block the tenant who the 3rd has found to substitute me

It is all about communication and I do not like the 3rd managing the visits of my room. I want to help here but as I said, not a single reply to my message

So I won't start looking for somebody because I don't know if the 3rd will reject the candidate by not signing the contract replacement (lack of communication from the 3rd side as I said before) neither I will sign a replacement in case the 3rd finds somebody and wants to kick me out soon because I want to talk to the 3rd to say that I need notice period, otherwise I won't have time to find another apartment (because the 3rd does not reply neither communicates)

I hope this makes sense now
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Old 12.09.2018, 17:13
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

Not helpful I know but "3rd" sounds like a pain in the arse. Surely it's in everyone's best interests to cooperate?
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Old 12.09.2018, 17:16
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

In conclusion: is it true that If I bring good tenants to rent my room this does not matter because the one that stays maybe does not like any, and the 3rd needs to sign the contract for the replacement, correct ?

and if that person does not sign, then the replacement will never happen ? that's why I was asking for legal advice to unlock myself from the flat
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Old 12.09.2018, 17:22
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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"Funny" how many people already have their judgement ready about the 3rd person.

I read nowhere that they already have proposed new tenants or even spoke of that option, heck OP did not even know this was an option, I only read that they have proposed to cancel the contract and that the 3rd person is not willing to also cancel and move. (And why would he/she?)

I do read a topic about an OP not aware of rights and obligations who expected somebody else to give up his house since it benefits her financially, and who became pissed of due to this person now willing to do so.
The way I see it, this post is about dissolving a WG when not everyone agrees to it.

Unfortunately (and I speak from experience here), when people decide to share a flat and a contract they don't think about what would happen if down the road, 6 months or 2 years from now, they simply don't want to live together anymore. Reasons aside, the bitter reality is that this group of people are bound by a contract with a fraction wanting out and another fraction wanting to stay. Who is right and who is wrong is irrelevant. What matters is how to solve the conundrum.

Of course the sensible way would have been to agree upon and sign a "WG rules" document defining, amongst other things, what happens if/when someone wants to leave the WG, what are the criteria to choose and admit new WG members, what's the notice period to leave the WG, who cleans what by when etc. etc. etc... but it is what it is. If such ground rules were not established in the beginning now that there is a conflict it's certainly not going to happen...
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Old 12.09.2018, 17:53
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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In conclusion: is it true that If I bring good tenants to rent my room this does not matter because the one that stays maybe does not like any, and the 3rd needs to sign the contract for the replacement, correct ?

and if that person does not sign, then the replacement will never happen ? that's why I was asking for legal advice to unlock myself from the flat
I went back to the correspondence I had with the Mieterverband back in the day. In summary you must come to an agreement between you, 2nd and 3rd. This is not a "Mietrecht" problem (between tenants and rental agency) but a "Gesellschaftrecht" problem (as co-signatories of a contract, you are seen as a "society").

See: https://www.mieterverband.ch/dam/jcr...aften_2015.pdf

And also this: http://www.consulegis.com/wp-content...amen-Miete.pdf
This last article is very interesting. It roughly says that if a party moves out or doesn't want to live in the WG anymore, the purpose of your society (einfache Gesellschaft) is dissolved. If things get ugly it would be helpful for you to have a document stating you want to leave this society. It also says that if there is no cooperation it is quite difficult to resolve the situation. The suggested solution? take the lead with the rental agency... and get them to terminate your contract!!

Please also note that if either you or 2nd decide to move out and stop paying rent, you can be held liable for these monies as long as the contract between the three of you is not dissolved. Unfortunately this means that 3rd can reject candidate after candidate I'm afraid?

Last edited by evaluna; 12.09.2018 at 18:12.
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Old 12.09.2018, 18:13
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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I went back to the correspondence I had with the Mieterverband back in the day. In summary you must come to an agreement between you, 2nd and 3rd. This is not a "Mietrecht" problem (between tenants and rental agency) but a "Gesellschaftrecht" problem (between co-signatories of a contract).

See: https://www.mieterverband.ch/dam/jcr...aften_2015.pdf

Is there a neutral party, a friend or similar, that can help mediate this conflict?
Pure Swiss essence , neutrality has to intervene here hehehe

I hope at some point the situation will calm down and this will be solved

On the other hand, I guess I can subscribe to the Mieterverband and ask him what happens when there is no such a solution for this case; I guess the legal stuff will kick into this by asking this legal conciliation that forum members explained before or the court ? that would be too extreme

Thank you all again
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Old 12.09.2018, 18:17
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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I went back to the correspondence I had with the Mieterverband back in the day. In summary you must come to an agreement between you, 2nd and 3rd. This is not a "Mietrecht" problem (between tenants and rental agency) but a "Gesellschaftrecht" problem (as co-signatories of a contract, you are seen as a "society").

See: https://www.mieterverband.ch/dam/jcr...aften_2015.pdf

And also this: http://www.consulegis.com/wp-content...amen-Miete.pdf
This last article is very interesting. It roughly says that if a party moves out or doesn't want to live in the WG anymore, the purpose of your society (einfache Gesellschaft) is dissolved. If things get ugly it would be helpful for you to have a document stating you want to leave this society. It also says that if there is no cooperation it is quite difficult to resolve the situation. The suggested solution? take the lead with the rental agency... and get them to terminate your contract!!

Please also note that if either you or 2nd decide to move out and stop paying rent, you can be held liable for these monies as long as the contract between the three of you is not dissolved. Unfortunately this means that 3rd can reject candidate after candidate I'm afraid?
Oh I sawy you edited the message. In regards to your edition, what do you mean by our 'society' ? I mean, what does it exactly mean the text in bold ? that we are like a society and if I show that I do not want to live with them anymore by presenting a document, then somebody has to act, even the real estate agency to dissolve the contract ?

The real estate agency already replied to me in a message when I exposed the problem and they said: We are so sorry but you need to reach to an agreement

As usual, they do not care that much while they still get paid
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Old 12.09.2018, 18:28
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Re: Contract termination on a shared apartment, how ?

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Oh I sawy you edited the message. In regards to your edition, what do you mean by our 'society' ? I mean, what does it exactly mean the text in bold ? that we are like a society and if I show that I do not want to live with them anymore by presenting a document, then somebody has to act, even the real estate agency to dissolve the contract ?

The real estate agency already replied to me in a message when I exposed the problem and they said: We are so sorry but you need to reach to an agreement

As usual, they do not care that much while they still get paid
Not a lawyer so my advice is worth what you paid for it

Your society/association means that you're jointly liable for the responsibilities under the rental contract you co-signed. This includes paying rent and also terminating your contract. As far as the rental agency is concerned either you all (1, 2nd and 3rd) terminate the contract together or they will continue to pursue payments from either of you. If you don't pay, you eventually get a Betreibung. Simples.

If you create a document saying you want out, you can use it if things get to the courts as evidence that you were cooperating towards a resolution of the conflict but nothing more. In the meantime, your contract is still running and all three of you will be liable to keep paying until you terminate your contract.

Now since lawyers are expensive and nobody wants to get to court, either you, 2nd or 3rd can flip things around and convince the agency that your WG is so messed up that they are better off by "proactively" cancelling your contract rather than risking delayed payments or debt collection.
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