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Old 13.11.2018, 12:55
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Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

Hey guys,

We finally found a place, out of desperation & genuinely falling in love with the home...we decided and were accepted for an apartment normally way out of our budget. (We can afford it, just more nights in.)

We have just been informed that they will not accept the Swiss Caution insurance and we have to deposit over 10,000 CHF into their account over one month in advance prior to moving in. With our tax bill due, the cost of moving kantons, my brief unemployment & paying for two places for two months this makes things tight.

Are there any other options out there that I can negotiate with? I don’t feel comfortable handing such an amount over. The lease has NOT been signed yet.

Thanks a lot!
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Old 13.11.2018, 12:58
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

Is it "their" account or the standard deposit account where neither party has access without the signature of the other?
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Old 13.11.2018, 13:00
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

The caution is not deposited in their account! An account is made in *your* name just for this end. Please be careful with that.

Here's more info:

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...sicherung.html
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Old 13.11.2018, 13:00
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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The caution is not deposited in their account! An account is made in *your* name just for this end. Please be careful with that.
What do you mean? Can’t I just open a separate savings at my own bank then?
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Old 13.11.2018, 13:06
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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What do you mean? Can’t I just open a separate savings at my own bank then?
From the link I provided:

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Das Depot muss auf ein Mietzinskautionskonto einbezahlt werden, das ausschliesslich auf den Namen des Mieters lautet. Als Mieter müssen Sie den Antrag zur Eröffnung des Mietkautionskontos unterzeichnen. Die Überweisung erfolgt durch einen speziellen Einzahlungsschein der Bank. Der Vermieter kann nicht ohne die Zustimmung des Mieters auf dieses Konto zugreifen. Während der Dauer des Mietverhältnisses bleibt das Konto also für beide Seiten gesperrt. Solange der Vermieter kein solches Sperrkonto eingerichtet hat, muss der Mieter die Kaution nicht bezahlen. Eine Barbezahlung oder Überweisung auf das private Konto des Vermieters darf der Mieter ablehnen.
In short: Your "Kaution" will be deposited in a bank account which is specially made just for this, and it's made on your name. As a renter you need to sign to open the account. Your landlord cannot access this money without your permission, but while you are renting, neither party has access to it - it's blocked. You should not make a transfer to a private account of the landlord/agency.

Now, if your landlord is refusing the Swiss Caution Insurance, you have three options: dig deeper in your pockets for the money, ask for a small loan from a friend/family/bank, walk away from this apartment and find something else that is within your budget.
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Old 13.11.2018, 13:20
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

Thanks a lot for this!

When we move out, let’s say our landlord makes false claims of damages. (We had this happen to us in Germany when she said we caused years worth of mold damage even though we were only there for 4 months.) Could they then access this money and/or block it? We have renter’s insurance that I would hope cover any damage if we genuinely caused it.
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Old 13.11.2018, 13:53
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

While it's great you found a dream place, you sound like you're making this move on your last penny.

Within a few months your dream home will feel normal to you. The financial burden won't. Love can fade so quickly

It's not what you asked for but maybe an other night sleep over it ....

By renter's insurance you probably mean private liability. Yes they will pay. The landlord can stall up to one year to release the deposit-account.
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Old 13.11.2018, 14:08
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

My place, I wanted to use Swiss Caution. I kind of got told I couldnt, but after speaking with the agency, it just turned out that they dont like using Swiss Caution. But Zurich Connect offer the same thing and they would be happy if I used them, they proposed the company.

It largely made no difference to me. I had only heard of SC so opted for them, but to keep the peace and make everyone happy I used Zurich insurance.

So its worth double checking the situation and if they would be happy if you used another provider for such a service that they prefer dealing with.
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Old 13.11.2018, 14:23
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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Could they then access this money and/or block it? We have renter’s insurance that I would hope cover any damage if we genuinely caused it.
Neither can access it with the others consent. Which means they can block it. They can easily block it up to 12 months after the end of the rental, after that they must file a formal complaint with the rental court or it gets released to you.

See Code of Obligations Art. 257e https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a257e

Not accepting a caution provider makes sure that only solvent people can get the apartment. You may consider a consumer credit to bridge the gap. The Migros Bank has normally the best rates. Be aware about the fact, that even if you sign up for a 12 or 24 month loan you can repay it anytime and save interest.

Also note that those caution providers are not insurances, but will fully reclaim any cost and damages from you. It is kind of a running credit with rather high interest rates. It is possible that a landlord has easier access to the money from a caution provider than a regular rental deposit account.
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Old 13.11.2018, 14:24
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

Good insights here. Never make a big decision in a hurry. Never heard of people asking you to pay the deposit into their accounts. It is a big amount and you should make sure you protect yourself incase of future issues. And as someone wise once told me, if it looks too good to be true, sometimes it is. Trust but verify.
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Old 13.11.2018, 14:32
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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Good insights here. Never make a big decision in a hurry. Never heard of people asking you to pay the deposit into their accounts.
Paying into their accounts is sometimes the only option with bigger rental management companies such as Wincasa, Livit etc. This is due to internal bureaucracy and overhead which leads to the inability to open a rental deposit account on the tenants name in good time.

A private landlord or small agency with much less overhead on the other hand should be able to open such an account within a few days.

I once more point to Art. 257e Code of Obligations where it is stated that the landlord must deposit it in a bank savings or deposit account in the tenant's name. Which means a tenant has no direct right to pay directly into a deposit account. Never the less it customary and usual that the account is opened ASAP and the future tenant pays directly into the rental deposit account which is on his name.
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Old 13.11.2018, 15:04
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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Good insights here. Never make a big decision in a hurry. Never heard of people asking you to pay the deposit into their accounts. It is a big amount and you should make sure you protect yourself incase of future issues. And as someone wise once told me, if it looks too good to be true, sometimes it is. Trust but verify.
If it were too good to be true, it would be under OP's budget, deposit would be easy-peasy to pay, the rental contract would magically fit the end of the old one.

This is "gee it's wonderful, can I finance it and is it still worth the extra effort in the long run".
It could well be so - but has to be decided on after the adrenalin is back on normal level. (By having it discussed here, OP is actually doing a good job getting the adrenalin down)

OP: Quick check: Is it more than 1/3 or your salary? Again not a law here but a rule. Rules are often quite good things to get things in perspective.
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Old 13.11.2018, 15:11
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

just from renting 2 places here

when we paid a deposit we had a devil of a job getting it back, the landlord was a total cock and messed us around something chronic, even going as far as asking us to pay to have the garden landscaped, which just so happened to be the exact amount of our deposit.

When we used swisscaution we had no issues at all when we left

I'd be very suspicious of any landlord that wouldn't accept it, they have no reason at all not to, seems (to me) they prefer to have cash so they have you by the balls when you want to leave
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Old 13.11.2018, 15:29
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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If it were too good to be true, it would be under OP's budget, deposit would be easy-peasy to pay, the rental contract would magically fit the end of the old one.

This is "gee it's wonderful, can I finance it and is it still worth the extra effort in the long run".
It could well be so - but has to be decided on after the adrenalin is back on normal level. (By having it discussed here, OP is actually doing a good job getting the adrenalin down)

OP: Quick check: Is it more than 1/3 or your salary? Again not a law here but a rule. Rules are often quite good things to get things in perspective.
hehe thanks mate...indeed, I've come down from the initial high of the apartment viewing and acceptance.

We consider the monthly rent to be worth it and feasible as we individually make 3 times the rent each month...we've just been spoiled here in Basel with a nice cheap place and are used to saving our hard earned cash for other things.

We just got unlucky with some uncontrollables this year - having to pay two years of taxes in one year (WTF, thanks Basel Stadt) and myself getting laid off and having to move towns to find work as many others in pharma in Basel are doing.

We could still afford the depot and make it, it would just drain a good portion of our reserves and I really don't see the point. Having to sit down and think it through...otherwise it is a perfect apartment for us.

Really grateful to all for this good advice!! Thank-you!!
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Old 13.11.2018, 16:12
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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hehe thanks mate...indeed, I've come down from the initial high of the apartment viewing and acceptance.

We consider the monthly rent to be worth it and feasible as we individually make 3 times the rent each month...we've just been spoiled here in Basel with a nice cheap place and are used to saving our hard earned cash for other things.

We just got unlucky with some uncontrollables this year - having to pay two years of taxes in one year (WTF, thanks Basel Stadt) and myself getting laid off and having to move towns to find work as many others in pharma in Basel are doing.

We could still afford the depot and make it, it would just drain a good portion of our reserves and I really don't see the point. Having to sit down and think it through...otherwise it is a perfect apartment for us.

Really grateful to all for this good advice!! Thank-you!!
Go for it then! 13th salary is about 6 weeks away - two of them apparently.

You can pick up the interest eacht year from the deposit account, it's your's
You don't see the point? Imagine how you would see that if you were the landlord.
A portion out of your reserves? LOL, that's a FWP innit? And the portion is still there, you just don't have access to it - which might be a good idea in case you have an other idea like this sometime soon.

Good luck.
There you go:

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Old 13.11.2018, 16:25
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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We just got unlucky with some uncontrollables this year - having to pay two years of taxes in one year (WTF, thanks Basel Stadt)
Maybe uncontrollable, but neither unforeseeable nor unplannable. And unlike snow in a mountain village which is kind of the same you even can predict the amount.
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Old 13.11.2018, 16:38
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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Go for it then! 13th salary is about 6 weeks away - two of them apparently.
Just for one of us, my company doesn't offer it.

But thanks for the well wishes
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Old 13.11.2018, 17:23
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

Swisscaution is quite a scam - for you, as a renter.

They'll charge what, 5% of the sum per year? Plus some extra costs.. (25 CHF pA!?)

And no, they won't cover your expenses in case something is due at the end - you'll pay that too. It's simply an insurance for the landlord in case you decide to destroy the appartment and run.. (which the deposit is for, anyway..)

It comes cheaper to take a 4.9% private credit (terrible thing, never do that!) from Migros Bank and opening up a proper deposit account. I think that alone says it enough..

10.000 CHF is a lot for a deposit, but it seems they only want to attract renters that aren't "just" making months end with a zero in their account. Which is perfectly fine from them to do.

Swisscaution really shouts "hey, short term lease upcoming here, and renter doesn't even have a few thousand CHF on their side right now" to any landlord.

If you stay in a place that asks for 5000 CHF deposit, you'll be paying 275 CHF per year for nothing when compared with a proper bank account deposit.

In todays 0% interest world, I'd simply asking someone you trust to lend you some money for a while, even against "real" interest (say, 3% or so) - still much cheaper than using Swisscaution, especially if it's just temporary till you repay the debt. Otherwise, you'll get sucked every year from Swisscaution. And it doesn't really become better if (when) interests rise again, since you'll collect interests on the deposit account, making the gap even bigger (+% vs. -5%+Fee from Swisscaution)
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Old 13.11.2018, 17:34
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

As others said, there are other similar providers if SwissCaution is not accepted.
SmartCaution (http://smartcaution.ch/en/) is an example.
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Old 13.11.2018, 17:43
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Re: Swiss “caution” rental deposit options?

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As others said, there are other similar providers if SwissCaution is not accepted.
SmartCaution (http://smartcaution.ch/en/) is an example.



Same shit, different name
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