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Old 26.11.2018, 23:05
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How do i rent without residence permit?!

Can't find a clear answer on the forums so hoping someone can offer their advice. Please correct me if i'm wrong, but after looking at relevant forms it appears that:

To get my work b-permit i need to provide my rental lease to demonstrate where i'm living.

To get a rental lease i have to provide my b-permit to demonstrate legal presence.


Needless to say, i'm getting a little frustrated and confused.
Thanks.
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Old 26.11.2018, 23:48
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

Start with a short term lease like AirBnB or find somebody who is seeking for a temporarily take-over due to study, work or a long holiday, from there you file for your permit and start working while looking for a more permanent home.
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Old 27.11.2018, 00:28
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Can't find a clear answer on the forums so hoping someone can offer their advice. Please correct me if i'm wrong, but after looking at relevant forms it appears that:

To get my work b-permit i need to provide my rental lease to demonstrate where i'm living.

To get a rental lease i have to provide my b-permit to demonstrate legal presence.


Needless to say, i'm getting a little frustrated and confused.
Thanks.


Rent with the work-contract. And give your employer as reference.

PS: And forget short term lease. If it's under three months the communities won't register you.
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Old 27.11.2018, 00:29
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Start with a short term lease like AirBnB or find somebody who is seeking for a temporarily take-over due to study, work or a long holiday, from there you file for your permit and start working while looking for a more permanent home.
Thanks for advice. I donít think you get a lease if you do AirBnB? The b-permit form asks for a legit rental agreement. I canít imagine they would accept an AirBnB receipt?
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Old 27.11.2018, 05:17
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

So long as you have a legitimate ground for being here, there is no problem in first signing a rental contract then registering at the Commune.
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Old 27.11.2018, 06:41
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Thanks for advice. I donít think you get a lease if you do AirBnB? The b-permit form asks for a legit rental agreement. I canít imagine they would accept an AirBnB receipt?
Go to Airbnb and ask the people if they are ok to sign a letter saying that you are living there and so for the B Permit...
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Old 27.11.2018, 06:58
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Go to Airbnb and ask the people if they are ok to sign a letter saying that you are living there and so for the B Permit...
Also check with the cantonal migration office first that they accept Airbnb for rental purposes. Not all cantons do.
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Old 28.11.2018, 07:59
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Rent with the work-contract. And give your employer as reference.

PS: And forget short term lease. If it's under three months the communities won't register you.
Where are you getting that Info from about minimum of three months?!
Seems unreasonable the local canton registration office would care that your lease is less than 3 months if you can show that you just accepted a permenanet job contract with indefinite length.
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Old 28.11.2018, 12:16
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Where are you getting that Info from about minimum of three months?!
Seems unreasonable the local canton registration office would care that your lease is less than 3 months if you can show that you just accepted a permenanet job contract with indefinite length.
On EF
Had you used the search function there would have been no need to open a thread, you're not the first and won't be the last with this problem.


Actually I remember returning to Switzerland and trying to register in a town, mentioning "....I'm looking for a flat in Zurich". And they turned to me and told me to register there once I found one. So I basically lived and worked here for 3 months unregistered, quite an achievement for a Swiss.
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Old 28.11.2018, 12:30
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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PS: And forget short term lease. If it's under three months the communities won't register you.
I don't know where you got that from but we arrived in Zurich and registered while living in a temporary furnished apartment...
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Old 28.11.2018, 13:41
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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I don't know where you got that from but we arrived in Zurich and registered while living in a temporary furnished apartment...
When I arrived in Bern in 2012, I was explicitly told that I could not stay in short-term apartments and needed a long-term rental contract (i.e. at least 6 months). This delayed my entry to the country by a few months while I searched for longer-term rentals.
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Old 28.11.2018, 13:52
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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I basically lived and worked here for 3 months unregistered, quite an achievement for a Swiss.
That's nothing, my daughter went over a year without de-registering/registering when she moved to the other end of Ticino!

Tom
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Old 28.11.2018, 14:01
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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That's nothing, my daughter went over a year without de-registering/registering when she moved to the other end of Ticino!

Tom
I returned from abroad, basically didn't exist (as I didn't register anywhere abroad either).
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Old 28.11.2018, 15:46
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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I returned from abroad, basically didn't exist (as I didn't register anywhere abroad either).
But as a Swiss national will you never be illegal in Switzerland. With free movement technically the same for "old Europe", but quite different for many others...
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Old 28.11.2018, 16:28
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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On EF
Had you used the search function there would have been no need to open a thread, you're not the first and won't be the last with this problem.


Actually I remember returning to Switzerland and trying to register in a town, mentioning "....I'm looking for a flat in Zurich". And they turned to me and told me to register there once I found one. So I basically lived and worked here for 3 months unregistered, quite an achievement for a Swiss.
Firstly, the forums on englishforum.ch are fantastic, but essentially itís just a big data dump. I always try numerous searches here for the information I need before posting but reality is search functions are not that clever and donít always come up with the relevent info even if it exists. I only have limited time and resources and scrolling through hours of forums doesnít make sense even if the answer is buried deeply. Call it the cost/benefit analysis of posting.

Also, turning up ďlooking for a flatĒ isnít the same as Iíve got a flat for a few month to start me off. There seem to be numerous people in this thread that had no problems registering with just temp housing. I guess Iíll find out when I apply but thanks for the reply-you might be completely right!
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Old 28.11.2018, 16:32
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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I don't know where you got that from but we arrived in Zurich and registered while living in a temporary furnished apartment...
Was it temporary in the sense that the lease was month to month (indefinitely) or temporary in the sense that the lease you showed them only had say 2-3 months before it expired?

Thanks.
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Old 28.11.2018, 17:05
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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But as a Swiss national will you never be illegal in Switzerland. With free movement technically the same for "old Europe", but quite different for many others...
True.
Keyword: Taxes.
Never mind, off track.

So did OP try to rent with work-contract? Or is s/he still in the 'was the egg or the hen first' circle?
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Old 28.11.2018, 17:16
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Firstly, the forums on englishforum.ch are fantastic, but essentially itís just a big data dump. I always try numerous searches here for the information I need before posting but reality is search functions are not that clever and donít always come up with the relevent info even if it exists.
EF search is about the poorest implementation of a search function that Iíve ever experienced. Even the Outlook search functionality is better...
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Old 28.11.2018, 17:20
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Firstly, the forums on englishforum.ch are fantastic, but essentially itís just a big data dump. I always try numerous searches here for the information I need before posting but reality is search functions are not that clever and donít always come up with the relevent info even if it exists. I only have limited time and resources and scrolling through hours of forums doesnít make sense even if the answer is buried deeply. Call it the cost/benefit analysis of posting.
Use Google. I do not mean the "Google Powered" which is also broken but, real, proper Google.com . Enter your search term followed by site:englishforum.ch and it will be much simpler to find what you need. Hope that helps.

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To get a rental lease i have to provide my b-permit to demonstrate legal presence.
Actually, no. There is no legal need for a permit to rent an apartment, house etc. But a landlord might be reluctant to rent if you do not have one.

It might be advisable to not go into a full rental contract before you passed the probation period. Check your contract how easily you can be sacked during this period.

If you do not get a B you maybe can get an L, if this is also not possible you may use the notification procedure https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...verfahren.html
if this also not possible you should request a written statement from the commune that you fulfilled the requirements set in Art. 11 to 13 Foreign Nationals Act https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html
if this also not possible get in contact with SEM https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...s/kontakt.html how to proceed such that your stay and work is legal and according the law
if all this is also not possible you must challenge the decision in court.

I have the personal view that they must register you even if you do not have a rental contract for longer than 3 months. Because the law speaks about intend.
Art. 23 Abs. 1 Swiss Civil Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a23
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A person's domicile is the place in which he or she resides with the intention of settling; residence for the purpose of education or the accommodation of a person in an educative institution or care home, a hospital or a penal institution does not by itself establish domicile.
Problem: we have clash between law on foreigners, which says you must register and the communes practice on registering peoples domicile when they cannot produce a long term rental contract.

https://www.jgk.be.ch/jgk/de/index/g...lassung_de.pdf
https://www.gsv-lu.ch/handbuch-2017/...lt_08-2017.pdf
http://www.vtg.ch/public/upload/asse...%20Mettier.pdf
https://www.vgso.ch/fileadmin/Inhalt...Melderecht.pdf
http://www.stiftung-fahrende.ch/gesc...nsitz_2012.pdf
https://www.gfvbl.ch/public/upload/a...THALT_2017.pdf
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Old 29.11.2018, 09:18
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Re: How do i rent without residence permit?!

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Was it temporary in the sense that the lease was month to month (indefinitely) or temporary in the sense that the lease you showed them only had say 2-3 months before it expired?

Thanks.


Both. The employer paid for a temp apartment. I think it was two months but it might have been three. Can be extended flexibly month by month. Trust me, you pay for that flexibility...


The rental contract says "Vision apartments" at the top so the city will know immediately that that's just a place for some weeks. I don't know if we just slipped through the system or if the rules depend as so often in CH on the individual canton.
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