Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 941
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 469 Times in 246 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Salary of concierge...

I am the owner of an apartment in a PPE and we (our PPE administrator, to be exact) hire a married couple as concierge to do the regular cleaning of the common space.

The other day I received the salary statements of concierge from our administrator and I was surprised that the administrator signed a salary increase since months ago and we (apartment owners) were not even informed. And I discussed with my neighbor and we feel the salary that we pay might be too high.

In short, We live in a building with 4 floors, 2 separate entries, ~20 apartment in total. And we pay a fixed amount of CHF 1,600 to each person of the concierge couple per month. Assuming a hourly rate of 25, that equals to 64 hours per month, or 2 full work days (16 hours) per week, which for me is way too much (I don8217;t believe our concierge stays 2 full working days just in our building to clean the stairs, garage8230;). What8217;s more, the 1600/month is net, on top of which we also pay 13% social charges (AVS8230;), and plus they have 20 days / year vacation and during their vacation we pay someone else to replace them.

My questions:

- From my description, does the salary seem too high?

- Is there a recommended salary rate for concierge? I found this on internet http://www.sit-syndicat.ch/spip/IMG/...e_2015-DEF.pdf. This document in 2015 recommended a minimum monthly salary from 3,800 to 4,700 for different categories for a 100% engagement (which is roughly from CHF 22 to 28 per hour).

- In a PPE what is the right of the owners with regard to the salary of concierge? Can the administrator sign a salary increase without notifying the owners? Can we challenge the salary and even propose our counter-offer from another concierge?

Feel free to let me know your opinion! Thanks!

Last edited by happyrobbie; 09.01.2019 at 14:11.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:43
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 25,253
Groaned at 1,452 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 29,068 Times in 13,905 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

We have to vote on it, the administrator can't decide on their own.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:54
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,933
Groaned at 97 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 8,847 Times in 4,406 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

This salary does not look to high to me at all. I've looked at apartments where the salaries around 2800-3800 for one person!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 09.01.2019, 13:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,222
Groaned at 625 Times in 461 Posts
Thanked 14,988 Times in 5,861 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
I am the owner of an apartment in a PPE and we (our PPE administrator, to be exact) hire a married couple as concierge to do the regular cleaning of the common space.

The other day I received the salary statements of concierge from our administrator and I was surprised that the administrator signed a salary increase since months ago and we (apartment owners) were not even informed. And I discussed with my neighbor and we feel the salary that we pay might be too high.

In short, We live in a building with 4 floors, 2 separate entries, ~20 apartment in total. And we pay a fixed amount of CHF 1,600 to the concierge couple per month. Assuming a hourly rate of 25, that equals to 64 hours per month, or 2 full work days (16 hours) per week, which for me is way too much (I don8217;t believe our concierge stays 2 full working days just in our building to clean the stairs, garage8230;). What8217;s more, the 1600/month is net, on top of which we also pay 13% social charges (AVS8230;), and plus they have 20 days / year vacation and during their vacation we pay someone else to replace them.

My questions:

- From my description, does the salary seem too high?

- Is there a recommended salary rate for concierge? I found this on internet http://www.sit-syndicat.ch/spip/IMG/...e_2015-DEF.pdf. This document in 2015 recommended a minimum monthly salary from 3,800 to 4,700 for different categories for a 100% engagement (which is roughly from CHF 22 to 28 per hour).

- In a PPE what is the right of the owners with regard to the salary of concierge? Can the administrator sign a salary increase without notifying the owners? Can we challenge the salary and even propose our counter-offer from another concierge?

Feel free to let me know your opinion! Thanks!
Do you mean the Concierge couple get 1600chf per month in TOTAL or do you mean that you pay 1600chf which is a share of the total they get?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09.01.2019, 13:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 941
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 469 Times in 246 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
Do you mean the Concierge couple get 1600chf per month in TOTAL or do you mean that you pay 1600chf which is a share of the total they get?
If every apartment pays CHF 1600 it will be a monthly salary of 32,000 I think I will apply to do the job immediately.
No I mean we pay CHF 1600 to the husband and 1600 to the wife (we have two individual contracts with both), so 3200 in total per month.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09.01.2019, 13:56
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 941
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 469 Times in 246 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
If every apartment pays CHF 1600 it will be a monthly salary of 32,000 I think I will apply to do the job immediately.
No I mean we pay CHF 1600 to the husband and 1600 to the wife (we have two individual contracts with both), so 3200 in total per month.
Also, before we paid 1600 to the husband + 1600 to the wife.
Now the administrator changes the two contracts, the husband salary is lowered to 500, and the wife's is increased to 2700. The reason is because the couple asked for this... for some fiscal reasons which I don't know (seems the husband is approaching or already at retirement and it is not very advantageous if he still touches a significant salary, but I don't know the details).
But, although the couple's total net salary is not changed (1600+1600=500+2700), does it change something with regard to social charges that we contribute for them?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09.01.2019, 14:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,222
Groaned at 625 Times in 461 Posts
Thanked 14,988 Times in 5,861 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
If every apartment pays CHF 1600 it will be a monthly salary of 32,000 I think I will apply to do the job immediately.
No I mean we pay CHF 1600 to the husband and 1600 to the wife (we have two individual contracts with both), so 3200 in total per month.
Well you wrote: And we pay a fixed amount of CHF 1,600 to the concierge couple per month".

You didn't say per person and your post implies 1600chf to the couple in total, so please try and write more clearly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Richdog for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 09.01.2019, 16:50
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,933
Groaned at 97 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 8,847 Times in 4,406 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
If every apartment pays CHF 1600 it will be a monthly salary of 32,000 I think I will apply to do the job immediately.
No I mean we pay CHF 1600 to the husband and 1600 to the wife (we have two individual contracts with both), so 3200 in total per month.
If it is each person at 1600 then 3200 for both is very much in line with what I have seen on various PPE accounts that I have looked at and it was for one person, plus extra for the replacement for vacations.

Yes. I think it's a lot. But apparently it's quite normal here.

I'm sure they do more than just sweep the stairs every week. They take care of the laundry room, change light bulbs, liase with repair people, liase with the management company, gardening, removing snow, deal with the trash containers, more?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 09.01.2019, 17:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 4,365
Groaned at 230 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 4,561 Times in 2,330 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
Also, before we paid 1600 to the husband + 1600 to the wife.
Now the administrator changes the two contracts, the husband salary is lowered to 500, and the wife's is increased to 2700. The reason is because the couple asked for this... for some fiscal reasons which I don't know (seems the husband is approaching or already at retirement and it is not very advantageous if he still touches a significant salary, but I don't know the details).
But, although the couple's total net salary is not changed (1600+1600=500+2700), does it change something with regard to social charges that we contribute for them?
Well if the husband goes on pension you'll have to fire the wife to avoid overpaying her unless the hours also have been changed on the contracts.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 09.01.2019, 18:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 6,756
Groaned at 220 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 8,192 Times in 4,270 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

I don't think the administrator can conclude contracts, or change them, in your name unless you've authorised that preemptively. Perhaps enquire, and have the owners meeting withdraw that foolish authorisation.

Employees are entitled to pension payments for the salary that is above the ~22k threshold. The wife is now above that.

The few examples I know the details of in for for-rent buildings, adjusted for different building size, cost considerably less than what you pay. Those jobs encompass cleaning the stairs and entrance weekly, shoveling snow, mowing the grass, placing the waste container by the road and taking it back, replacing bulbs in the common rooms, comunicating with the regie in case stuff is broken, letting the craftsmen in and showing them where stuff. I may have forgotten a thing or two.

In order to change the arrangement you won't just have to deal with the administrator and concierge, you'll also have to convince the co-owners your concerns are valid, and you'll have to agree on what is fair pay. Your most productive option may be to pay for a neutral and professional assessment of how long the job should take.

The Association of Caretakers recommends toolsuisse.ch. Those guys need the apartment plans and description of the surface materials so they won't come and take a look, meaning the assessment is probably produced in a rather cost efficient manner. If my impression is right, the cost reduction for the concierge will pay for the assessment costs in no time.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 11.01.2019, 13:56
EastEnders's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In a better place and Belp
Posts: 1,729
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,228 Times in 854 Posts
EastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

WHAAAA........???


I was for 15 yrs a janitor/gardener/handy woman in the appartment block (11 flats) belonging to my Ex-hubby & family. First 10 yrs I even worked for free.....

Then earned 500.- bucks net a month, my work included;

- weekly cleaning of stairwells and other shared rooms
- general cleaning and keeping the the surroundings of the house looking
good and in winter shovelling the snow
- gardening, e.g. mowing the lawns, cutting back shrubs, weeding etc.
- minor repairs, such as changing sockets, de-clogging syphons (u-bends)
and the like
- mediation between neighbours when problems occured and seeing in a
very kind and fair manner to keep to the houserules in and around the house
- 24/7 on call

- dealing with emergencies of many kinds

- showing flats to prospective tenants, doing the hand back and hand over
of flats

and quite a lot more than listed above.

In my opinion, for such a little amount of work as the OP states....1'600.- is more than enough at once....e.g. 800.- per head.
__________________
If you have something to tell me, tell me now and to my face or forever hold your piece (of mind)!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EastEnders for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 11.01.2019, 14:25
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 924
Groaned at 20 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 889 Times in 364 Posts
ipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputation
Re: Salary of concierge...

Quote:
View Post
We have to vote on it, the administrator can't decide on their own.

Tom
So do we.. in fact it went 'out to tender' and we voted on a few options
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11.01.2019, 20:30
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 8,546
Groaned at 49 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 13,200 Times in 6,115 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary of concierge...

I agree with EE, this sounds like too much.

Our building has about half the number of units yours does, OP, so I'd think you would only pay ~ double what we do.

When the Hauswart/concierge was living in the building, she received 500/month for the same work that EE describes. Now that she left and none of us wanted the job, we pay a company a bit more than that.

Keep in mind that if the couple doesn't live there, travel time is likely included in the hourly rate. If they're on call all the time that would probably also be included in the wage.

Still, even if you double what we pay you don't get anywhere near 1600 per person.

Do you think there might be wording in the agreement with the administrator that he/she has the authority to hire and set the contract rate with the concierge?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Concierge Services ommthree Finance/banking/taxation 5 20.01.2016 14:28
concierge TheRev22 Daily life 3 18.09.2013 17:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0