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Old 11.01.2019, 16:48
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Bar opening on the floor below us

Hi people of the internet.

As the title states, there is bar opening on the floor below us. Now, as we moved in there was little to no activity going on in the space below us, maybe a guy once a week hammering something for a couple hours, but now it seems they are doing a lot of construction.

Normally I wouldn`t complain about such a matter, in fact I`d find it a benefit, but 80% of the windows of our apartment are located just above the bar(not fun in summer) and the bar's public bathroom is located within our stairwell which leads to 2 other apartments. So naturally I'am a little more than annoyed at the idea of complete strangers making noise and having access to where we leave our shoes,bikes,etc .

My rental agency has not till now reached out to me about these changes and I find that a little unprofessional, maybe that is normal, but considering the circumstances of our location(Switzerland (of course) ) that is completely unacceptable. We already pay a lot for our apartment, too much in my opinion and having noise and inconvenience on a daily basis makes the deal all the sourer.

I guess you can imagine where this is going, so what is there that I can do, that is if I can do anything about it. Is it time for me find a new apartment?
A decrease in rent or preventing strangers from entering our stairwell would solve the problem for me. Can I depend on my agency to solve our problem?
Or is time for me to move on?

I appreciate any ideas or advice and thanks in advance.

,Dave
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Old 11.01.2019, 17:00
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

When you moved in, was it clear that the floor below you was a bar (albeit tempoarily not used as such) or was it a normal appartment that is being converted?

In the former case, your landlord would probably argue that you could have seen it was a bar of some sort and it was only to be expected that it would reopen at some point. So unless he specifically told you something else, there is little you can do against him. In the latter case this is something you could not have foreseen, and such a change in usage would even possibly require a change in permit / zoning. You could check with you bauamt whether this usage is permitted, but probably it is.

A bar can generate a considerably higher rental income than an appartment, so it's unlikely the landlord will drop his plans just to satisfy you.

Are there other residents / tenants in the building? have you discussed it with them? Do they share your concerns? Maybe if you jointly lodge a complaint, you might have greater chances of being heard.

But my overall feeling is, there's not much you can do. Maybe at best you can approach the landlord with your concerns about your shoes and bikes etc and he can offer a secure location for storage?

Anyway, good luck.
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Old 11.01.2019, 17:02
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

If you don't ask you don't get.

So first thing would be to ask your agency, they're not going to voluntarily reduce your rent out of the goodness of their heart. They don't know you're unhappy, so let them know.
Without the information as to whether they will reduce the rent to satisfy you I'm afraid from here on out it is conjecture.

Was there a business there before? As always join your local renters association and ask them all the questions you want.
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Old 11.01.2019, 17:05
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

And unless you have specific permission to stall your bikes and shoes in the public area I would not mention that specific concern to the landlord.

Weird construction tho.

However if their paperwork is in order all you can do is complain if there comes a reason to complain. Me personally would not mind having a bar so close to home
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Old 11.01.2019, 17:08
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

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Hi people of the internet.

As the title states, there is bar opening on the floor below us. Now, as we moved in there was little to no activity going on in the space below us, maybe a guy once a week hammering something for a couple hours, but now it seems they are doing a lot of construction.

Normally I wouldn`t complain about such a matter, in fact I`d find it a benefit, but 80% of the windows of our apartment are located just above the bar(not fun in summer) and the bar's public bathroom is located within our stairwell which leads to 2 other apartments. So naturally I'am a little more than annoyed at the idea of complete strangers making noise and having access to where we leave our shoes,bikes,etc .

My rental agency has not till now reached out to me about these changes and I find that a little unprofessional, maybe that is normal, but considering the circumstances of our location(Switzerland (of course) ) that is completely unacceptable. We already pay a lot for our apartment, too much in my opinion and having noise and inconvenience on a daily basis makes the deal all the sourer.

I guess you can imagine where this is going, so what is there that I can do, that is if I can do anything about it. Is it time for me find a new apartment?
A decrease in rent or preventing strangers from entering our stairwell would solve the problem for me. Can I depend on my agency to solve our problem?
Or is time for me to move on?

I appreciate any ideas or advice and thanks in advance.

,Dave
<< considering the circumstances of our location(Switzerland (of course) ) that is completely unacceptable.>> What? LOL!

You don't mention how long you lived there and what was there before they started turning it into a bar.
I would suspect, it was at least "Gewerberäume" (business premises) so anything can change in such a place anytime.
You don't mention where abouts you live (not asking for addresses ) but as they want to open a bar it's probably pretty central.

The toilet/access to your staircase sounds inconvenient. Does that mean the toilets are one floor down from the bar and only accessable via the same staircase the private tenants use?
This I would approach the landlord about, maybe some structural changes can be made (which I guess they would only agree to, if there had never been a gastronomic enterprise in the premises before = they don't have experience to base their arguments on). If you live in an old house in the old town this is also kind of normal though.

Apart from that (and depending on the first two points = if it's in the middle of idyllic nowhere etc.) I don't think there is much you can do. Except move on or become a regular.
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Old 11.01.2019, 17:37
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

Wasn't there some issue with leaving your shoes and bicycles on stairwells a while ago?
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Old 11.01.2019, 18:04
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

Take the low stress option and leave.
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Old 11.01.2019, 18:20
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

Think positive. Maybe it will be a great place to host English Forum events in your area.
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Old 11.01.2019, 18:37
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

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Think positive. Maybe it will be a great place to host English Forum events in your area.



Great idea, we can have bloody great party, noise and all, then read all about it the net day ad-infinitum.....
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Old 11.01.2019, 18:57
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

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Think positive. Maybe it will be a great place to host English Forum events in your area.
Might be a pub serving fish&chips.

Now I want the address after all!
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Old 11.01.2019, 19:27
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

OP, how do you know it is a bar? Have you talked to someone or are you just assuming it is going to be a bar BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY A BAR some time in its past?


Also, why is there a public restroom in your stairwell? It is obvious that a public restroom implies that the space on your ground floor was a public venue of some kind at some point in time.


You obviously knew these two things because you wrote them. Why are you getting all bent out of shape now that the space has been leased again and is going to open for business?
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Old 11.01.2019, 21:05
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

You need to ask advice from Asloca/Mietverband- become a member for small fee, then go and talk to them

No-one here can help as we know far too litle about the circumstances and detail. If the space was empty, when you chose to sign a contract, did you ask the agent what would happen to that place on groud floor- what plans were in place? If you did not- then if they have the proper permits and abide by the rules for bars re closing times, noise, etc - the you have not got a leg to stand on, it seems. If you did ask, and then said, especially in writing- theat it would not be a bar or any kind of entertainment area- and they later changed their mind, then you could try to challenge this- and perhaps get a rent reduction ?

An acquaintance recently opened a Bordello in a flat of a block his mother owns- and neighbours managed to get it closed as it was, and has always been, a family residential block in a quiet residential area - the fact he mirrored the name on a newly opened Spa just up the road, also was a factor in getting it closed. He sold the beds cheap on a local second-hand site
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Old 11.01.2019, 21:35
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

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...... You obviously knew these two things because you wrote them. Why are you getting all bent out of shape now that the space has been leased again and is going to open for business?
For the same reason people bought land cheaply (knowing it was cheap due to the Knonauer highway being planned), built their houses, then campaigned for decades against .... the Knonauer highway.


The first bit of that highway was built in 1970 and lied there for .... ever. I even remember the bit ending in the middle of nowhere, on which it was possible to roller skate. The planning of course started long before that.
At the final opening in 2009 of that bit of highway, Bundesrat Leuenberger apparentely said:"A mere 50 years after the planning started, we may already inaugurate this highway". (I always liked his sarcasm)


However, let's hope that is not what the owner of that bar will be facing.
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Old 11.01.2019, 21:42
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

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why is there a public restroom in your stairwell?
We rented a commercial space for ten years or so (though never got around to using it as such).

The restroom was in fact in the stairwell, though only we (or any potential customers) had the legal right to use it as such (not the other residents ).

Just saying.

Tom
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Old 11.01.2019, 22:13
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

Prior to 70s approx- it was very common to have one or two toilet per floor, in the stairwell. I remember friends who had 2 toilets on the half-stair space between 2 floors, so shared between 4 apartments- which often had 10 kids and parents in 2 or 3 rooms. Can you imagine when they all got the squitz

I went to have my nails painted the other day, and the beautician is on the ground floor, where friends lived in the flat until recently- with another flat across the landing. I had to use the loo and she gave me the key to the WC by the stairs- outside her salon - really made me laugh and brought memories. When I told her, she laughed and assured me the flat on other side does have its own WC and shower now

Another childhood friend lived in an old house with a very convenient toilet for a good natter- Roman style- a shed by the entrance door with a plank and 2 wooden lids with a metal ring to pull out- side by side - with a string loop with the local paper cut up. NO sink of course- you had to go to the kitchen and the stone sink with cold water tap ... tbh - I don't think anyone bothered unless it was really 'bad'.
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Old 11.01.2019, 23:32
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Re: Bar opening on the floor below us

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Also, why is there a public restroom in your stairwell? It is obvious that a public restroom implies that the space on your ground floor was a public venue of some kind at some point in time.
This arrangement is not that uncommon, especially in older buildings that were intended for use as shops, restaurants or other commercial purposes. Possibly it may also have to do with rules on gastronomy, that require at least two closable doors between areas where food is handled or served and toilet areas.
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