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-   -   LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/290183-legal-help-someone-lives-our-apartment-without-paying-rent.html)

fabulous 19.02.2019 16:07

LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Hi all,
a quick question:
Can I throw out someone who stays in our apartment(separated floor from us) without paying rent and no contract whatsoever at first (he's stayed as a guest, we tried to help him buy some time so he could find a job without worrying money, 3 years later still can't find himself a decent job that is sufficient to support his own space and living). We've told him to move out asap for many months but he never did. Can we just change the lock and move out all his stuff directly? (the landlord is living in the same building, but he is too old to tell us what to do.):msncrazy:
Thank you for replying in advance!

st2lemans 19.02.2019 16:10

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
No.

Tom

fabulous 19.02.2019 16:17

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Thank you. What can we do next?

me.anon 19.02.2019 16:19

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Maybe you find something here about terminating this arrangement (German: )
https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...am-wohnen.html

aSwissInTheUS 19.02.2019 16:24

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Use registered mail and the court approved forms.

If he paid something he is a renter and has the minimum rights by law.
If he lives in a furnished room (furnishing was provided by you) you can cancel with a minimal notice period of two weeks other wise the standard cancellation period of three months to the next local moving date applies. In both of this cases you would have to use the court approved forms.

If he is not paying and has never paid anything he is a guest. AFIAK you could "throw" him out any time. But it would be good to send him an notice letter using registered mail.

Guest 19.02.2019 16:29

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Simply throwing the stuff out will just result in him having a claim on you. Do also walk the legal correct path for this. (which I do not know in Switzerland, so I remain silent)

fabulous 19.02.2019 16:34

He has never ever paid anything even utilities expense. We never had a contact at all, it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3043397)
Use registered mail and the court approved forms.

If he paid something he is a renter and has the minimum rights by law.
If he lives in a furnished room (furnishing was provided by you) you can cancel with a minimal notice period of two weeks other wise the standard cancellation period of three months to the next local moving date applies. In both of this cases you would have to use the court approved forms.

If he is not paying and has never paid anything he is a guest. AFIAK you could "throw" him out any time. But it would be good to send him an notice letter using registered mail.


Do you know where I can find the form? thanks

Guest 19.02.2019 16:54

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043402)
He has never ever paid anything even utilities expense. We never had a contact at all, it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.

All true, but since you allowed him in he has gotten a set of rights which you have to obey unless you want to get bitten even more by this situation. Next time when you take somebody in don't believe blindly in the goodness of mankind but have a contract to protect yourself.

Silvestre 19.02.2019 16:54

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043402)
it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.

More like children... can't ever get rid of the buggers... will always find a way to come back even when you think you have finally gotten rid of them... :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Treverus 19.02.2019 16:55

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043387)
3 years later

Ok, here is the elephant in the room: there is a guy in your house who is looking for a job for THREE YEARS?


I have a simple question as nobody brought it up: Is he legal in Switzerland?

thekman 19.02.2019 16:56

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Wow. This is bonkers!

Guest 19.02.2019 16:57

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043407)
Do you know where I can find the form? thanks

Does he have a single furnished room? (1st post gives me the idea of him having the whole floor)

Anyway he does not pay rent, so the form is no use.

Just write him a notice and give him reasonable time to be out (let's say a month) and also mention that he needs to take all his stuff along with him or else you'll be forced to charge storage costs for this (all within reasonable limits)

ZuriRollt 19.02.2019 17:00

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Has Judge Rinder come to Switzerland?
Unlikely, as there are strict regulations here.

Guest 19.02.2019 17:03

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvestre (Post 3043416)
More like children... can't ever get rid of the buggers... will always find a way to come back even when you think you have finally gotten rid of them... :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yeah, but those are our own children, now image an adult friend (well no longer I assume) so just a random adult, taking half your house, eating your food and drinking your beer (assuming he has zero money or is committing fraude in one way or the other), and doing nothing in return....

fabulous 19.02.2019 17:09

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3043417)
Ok, here is the elephant in the room: there is a guy in your house who is looking for a job for THREE YEARS?


I have a simple question as nobody brought it up: Is he legal in Switzerland?

Yes, he was tricky and managed himself to get a B permit which he claimed to be a "freelancer", don't want to talk about what field he is in, as i know he can't make over 1000CHF/month or probably worse for being a freelancer. Told him to find a regular job, but never happened. :msncrazy:

Urs Max 19.02.2019 17:15

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Before you send any kind of letters it's probably better to get a professional assessment and evaluate the correct procedure. You might, for example, implicitly confirm the existence of a rental contract if you sent a cancel notice. I'm not saying this would be the case, but better safe than sorry.

Your landlord is highly likely to be a member of the Swiss homeowner's association ("HausEigentümerVerband", SHEV). Ask LL for their member number and call the SHEV for professional advice, a first assessment may be free, but even if not they're people who specialise in that field.

Alternatively you could use Zürich City administration's free legal advice. See here. (15mins max, by appointment only, by personal appearance only)

fabulous 19.02.2019 17:19

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Does he have a single furnished room? (1st post gives me the idea of him having the whole floor)

Anyway he does not pay rent, so the form is no use.

Just write him a notice and give him reasonable time to be out (let's say a month) and also mention that he needs to take all his stuff along with him or else you'll be forced to charge storage costs for this (all within reasonable limits)
He has a whole floor smaller than ours. It was empty at the begining, he managed to find all the furniture from second hand shop.

Yes I think I will write a notice, but as you see we tried many times to tell him to leave, always excuses, "I'll find a job soon." "I am gonna be successful soon." It is just getting ugly. We definitely don't want him with us in the future.

Guest 19.02.2019 17:22

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043434)
He has a whole floor smaller than ours. It was empty at the begining, he managed to find all the furniture from second hand shop.

Yes I think I will write a notice, but as you see we tried many times to tell him to leave, always excuses, "I'll find a job soon." "I am gonna be successful soon." It is just getting ugly. We definitely don't want him with us in the future.

Is he actually in your apartment or in another apartment in the same building? It's not clear.

fabulous 19.02.2019 17:28

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Is he actually in your apartment or in another apartment in the same building? It's not clear.
Same building, our apartment is 2 and 3 floor, he is in 3rd floor.

aSwissInTheUS 19.02.2019 17:31

Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043402)
He has never ever paid anything even utilities expense. We never had a contact at all, it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.

Then you won't need the form and as Urs said using it might not be in your best interest.

But just for reference you can find the form at your cantons rental court:
http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/themen/mie...uendigung.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabulous (Post 3043434)
Yes I think I will write a notice, but as you see we tried many times to tell him to leave, always excuses, "I'll find a job soon." "I am gonna be successful soon." It is just getting ugly. We definitely don't want him with us in the future.

Honestly, you are part of your own problem. You accept excuses and let set deadlines pass w/o any further consequences. State a clear, final date by when the premises has to be vacated. Also state that after that date he is considered a trespasser.

PS: It might be wise to invest a few hundred Francs with a lawyer and do it right, correct and with determination.


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