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Old 19.02.2019, 16:07
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LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Hi all,
a quick question:
Can I throw out someone who stays in our apartment(separated floor from us) without paying rent and no contract whatsoever at first (he's stayed as a guest, we tried to help him buy some time so he could find a job without worrying money, 3 years later still can't find himself a decent job that is sufficient to support his own space and living). We've told him to move out asap for many months but he never did. Can we just change the lock and move out all his stuff directly? (the landlord is living in the same building, but he is too old to tell us what to do.)
Thank you for replying in advance!
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:10
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

No.

Tom
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:17
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Thank you. What can we do next?
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:19
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Maybe you find something here about terminating this arrangement (German: )
https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...am-wohnen.html
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:24
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Use registered mail and the court approved forms.

If he paid something he is a renter and has the minimum rights by law.
If he lives in a furnished room (furnishing was provided by you) you can cancel with a minimal notice period of two weeks other wise the standard cancellation period of three months to the next local moving date applies. In both of this cases you would have to use the court approved forms.

If he is not paying and has never paid anything he is a guest. AFIAK you could "throw" him out any time. But it would be good to send him an notice letter using registered mail.
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:29
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Simply throwing the stuff out will just result in him having a claim on you. Do also walk the legal correct path for this. (which I do not know in Switzerland, so I remain silent)
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:34
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He has never ever paid anything even utilities expense. We never had a contact at all, it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.

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Use registered mail and the court approved forms.

If he paid something he is a renter and has the minimum rights by law.
If he lives in a furnished room (furnishing was provided by you) you can cancel with a minimal notice period of two weeks other wise the standard cancellation period of three months to the next local moving date applies. In both of this cases you would have to use the court approved forms.

If he is not paying and has never paid anything he is a guest. AFIAK you could "throw" him out any time. But it would be good to send him an notice letter using registered mail.

Do you know where I can find the form? thanks

Last edited by 3Wishes; 19.02.2019 at 22:36. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:54
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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He has never ever paid anything even utilities expense. We never had a contact at all, it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.
All true, but since you allowed him in he has gotten a set of rights which you have to obey unless you want to get bitten even more by this situation. Next time when you take somebody in don't believe blindly in the goodness of mankind but have a contract to protect yourself.
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:54
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.
More like children... can't ever get rid of the buggers... will always find a way to come back even when you think you have finally gotten rid of them...
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:55
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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3 years later
Ok, here is the elephant in the room: there is a guy in your house who is looking for a job for THREE YEARS?


I have a simple question as nobody brought it up: Is he legal in Switzerland?
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:56
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Wow. This is bonkers!
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Old 19.02.2019, 16:57
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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Do you know where I can find the form? thanks
Does he have a single furnished room? (1st post gives me the idea of him having the whole floor)

Anyway he does not pay rent, so the form is no use.

Just write him a notice and give him reasonable time to be out (let's say a month) and also mention that he needs to take all his stuff along with him or else you'll be forced to charge storage costs for this (all within reasonable limits)
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:00
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Has Judge Rinder come to Switzerland?
Unlikely, as there are strict regulations here.
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:03
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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More like children... can't ever get rid of the buggers... will always find a way to come back even when you think you have finally gotten rid of them...
Yeah, but those are our own children, now image an adult friend (well no longer I assume) so just a random adult, taking half your house, eating your food and drinking your beer (assuming he has zero money or is committing fraude in one way or the other), and doing nothing in return....
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:09
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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Ok, here is the elephant in the room: there is a guy in your house who is looking for a job for THREE YEARS?


I have a simple question as nobody brought it up: Is he legal in Switzerland?
Yes, he was tricky and managed himself to get a B permit which he claimed to be a "freelancer", don't want to talk about what field he is in, as i know he can't make over 1000CHF/month or probably worse for being a freelancer. Told him to find a regular job, but never happened.
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:15
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Before you send any kind of letters it's probably better to get a professional assessment and evaluate the correct procedure. You might, for example, implicitly confirm the existence of a rental contract if you sent a cancel notice. I'm not saying this would be the case, but better safe than sorry.

Your landlord is highly likely to be a member of the Swiss homeowner's association ("HausEigentümerVerband", SHEV). Ask LL for their member number and call the SHEV for professional advice, a first assessment may be free, but even if not they're people who specialise in that field.

Alternatively you could use Zürich City administration's free legal advice. See here. (15mins max, by appointment only, by personal appearance only)
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:19
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

Quote:
Does he have a single furnished room? (1st post gives me the idea of him having the whole floor)

Anyway he does not pay rent, so the form is no use.

Just write him a notice and give him reasonable time to be out (let's say a month) and also mention that he needs to take all his stuff along with him or else you'll be forced to charge storage costs for this (all within reasonable limits)
He has a whole floor smaller than ours. It was empty at the begining, he managed to find all the furniture from second hand shop.

Yes I think I will write a notice, but as you see we tried many times to tell him to leave, always excuses, "I'll find a job soon." "I am gonna be successful soon." It is just getting ugly. We definitely don't want him with us in the future.
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:22
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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He has a whole floor smaller than ours. It was empty at the begining, he managed to find all the furniture from second hand shop.

Yes I think I will write a notice, but as you see we tried many times to tell him to leave, always excuses, "I'll find a job soon." "I am gonna be successful soon." It is just getting ugly. We definitely don't want him with us in the future.
Is he actually in your apartment or in another apartment in the same building? It's not clear.
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:28
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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Is he actually in your apartment or in another apartment in the same building? It's not clear.
Same building, our apartment is 2 and 3 floor, he is in 3rd floor.
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Old 19.02.2019, 17:31
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Re: LEGAL HELP: someone lives in our apartment without paying rent

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He has never ever paid anything even utilities expense. We never had a contact at all, it's like you let your friend stay for few months and suddenly he doesn't want to move out anymore.
Then you won't need the form and as Urs said using it might not be in your best interest.

But just for reference you can find the form at your cantons rental court:
http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/themen/mie...uendigung.html

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Yes I think I will write a notice, but as you see we tried many times to tell him to leave, always excuses, "I'll find a job soon." "I am gonna be successful soon." It is just getting ugly. We definitely don't want him with us in the future.
Honestly, you are part of your own problem. You accept excuses and let set deadlines pass w/o any further consequences. State a clear, final date by when the premises has to be vacated. Also state that after that date he is considered a trespasser.

PS: It might be wise to invest a few hundred Francs with a lawyer and do it right, correct and with determination.
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