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Old 03.10.2019, 10:58
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Owner selling up.

Does anyone know what the form is called, in German for receiving notice to leave a property?
Our landlord, also the owner has decided to sell his house...we are being plagued by an agent to take photos to put it on the market, although we have 6 months notice he still hasn't given us notice himself.

Information would be welcomed.
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:05
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Re: Owner selling up.

Mietkündigung / Kündigung Mietvertrag.

General info:
https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...usverkauf.html
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:10
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Does anyone know what the form is called, in German for receiving notice to leave a property?
Our landlord, also the owner has decided to sell his house...we are being plagued by an agent to take photos to put it on the market, although we have 6 months notice he still hasn't given us notice himself.

Information would be welcomed.
Ignore him, you have no obligation to take any photos or do anything other than leave the apartment in good condition after being given proper notice.
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:11
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Re: Owner selling up.

You do not need to leave, even when the owner sells. AFAIK the rental contract continues. And if your landlord hasn´t sent in the notice, you have a valid rental contract.


Check with the Mieterverband/Asloca!
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:29
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Ignore him, you have no obligation to take any photos or do anything other than leave the apartment in good condition after being given proper notice.
Its actually the owners agent that wants to visit and take photos, in fact he was the one who informed me the owner wants to sell up...absolute stumm from the owner so far.
I am ignoring the WhatsApp that keep appearing asking me to agree for him to visit to take the photos.....don't want my personal belongings appearing in a sales document.

Spoke to the MV who have confirmed I don't have to do anything until the notice arrives.
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:29
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Ignore him, you have no obligation to take any photos or do anything other than leave the apartment in good condition after being given proper notice.
Nonsense.

OP is for example by law obligated to allow viewings to potential buyers.
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:34
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Re: Owner selling up.

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You do not need to leave, even when the owner sells. AFAIK the rental contract continues. And if your landlord hasn´t sent in the notice, you have a valid rental contract.


Check with the Mieterverband/Asloca!
So if he put the house on the market...do I have to have people tramping through the house to view it?
I did once hear that a tenant who has paid the rent on time without any other issues doesn't have to leave a house if they don't want to....can that actually be true?
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:38
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Re: Owner selling up.

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So if he put the house on the market...do I have to have people tramping through the house to view it?
Yes, you have to allow people trampling through your house.
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I did once hear that a tenant who has paid the rent on time without any other issues doesn't have to leave a house if they don't want to....can that actually be true?
This is nonsense.
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:38
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Re: Owner selling up.

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So if he put the house on the market...do I have to have people tramping through the house to view it?
Yes.

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I did once hear that a tenant who has paid the rent on time without any other issues doesn't have to leave a house if they don't want to....can that actually be true?
Yes and no.

If the new owner wants to move in, then yes you can be made to leave.

If you have otherwise been given notice and don't want to leave, you can fight it under certain circumstances.

Tom
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:42
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Re: Owner selling up.

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This is nonsense.
Not always.... if the new owner wants to live in the flat, they can cancel the rental contract (with suitable notice periods).

That's what we were going to do when we bought - but then agreed with the seller that they would terminate the contract with the tenant, and we would exchange the day the tenant moved out...

So my exchange inspection had three parties - the seller, the tenant and myself.
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:47
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Re: Owner selling up.

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If the new owner wants to move in, then yes you can be made to leave.
True, but this is often more complicated than simply cancelling and only following the terms of the contract.

The buyer knows he is buying a property that has been rented out, and even if he wants to live in it himself it all depends on how easy the renter can find something comparable new and how urgent the owner needs it. Owner can cancel contract, renter can object it, and some wise people will come up with a solution that is deemed reasonable for all, and it is not weird to give a renter a full year to find something new, or a new owner coming up with a deal like "here have 3 months for free, but then you'e gone"
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Old 03.10.2019, 11:50
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Not always.... if the new owner wants to live in the flat, they can cancel the rental contract (with suitable notice periods).

That's what we were going to do when we bought - but then agreed with the seller that they would terminate the contract with the tenant, and we would exchange the day the tenant moved out...

So my exchange inspection had three parties - the seller, the tenant and myself.
You might want to reread the post.

I said that this is nonsense:

Quote:
I did once hear that a tenant who has paid the rent on time without any other issues doesn't have to leave a house if they don't want to....can that actually be true?
Paying the rent in time does not grant extra protection and thus such statement is nonsense.
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Old 03.10.2019, 12:12
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Re: Owner selling up.

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So if he put the house on the market...do I have to have people tramping through the house to view it?
I did once hear that a tenant who has paid the rent on time without any other issues doesn't have to leave a house if they don't want to....can that actually be true?
Why don’t you just talk to the landlord and find out what is going on? If the intention is to sell with existing tenants in situ and you want to stay on, then it is in your interest to be cooperative rather than being marked as a problem tenant that needs to go. Either way there is a better chance you’ll know what is happening.
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Old 03.10.2019, 12:24
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Why don’t you just talk to the landlord and find out what is going on? If the intention is to sell with existing tenants in situ and you want to stay on, then it is in your interest to be cooperative rather than being marked as a problem tenant that needs to go. Either way there is a better chance you’ll know what is happening.
As mentioned previously, the request to visit has come from the selling agent. We met the owner three weeks ago who thanked us for looking after the house, enquired if we still liked living there etc..we have a good relation with him. However, the message from the agent came when we were away on holiday after having told the owner we would be away for the next two weeks....the owner has a contract with us which includes a six month notice period, he has already missed the last deadline so according to the MV we now get to stay until the end of April. I naturally don't want to encourage him to be 'efficient' and the MV has told us...' do nothing, you have no obligations until the official notice arrives'
On the flip side, we may consider buying this house...but is has some serious flaws which we would use as a bargaining tool if we go down this route......in the meantime we are on the hunt with an open mind to buy or rent.
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Old 03.10.2019, 12:31
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Re: Owner selling up.

You can ask ASLOCA/Mieterverband or simply read the relevant parts of the Code of Obligations.

Art. 257h
Quote:
Duty of tolerance

1 The tenant or lessee must tolerate works intended to remedy defects in the object or to repair or prevent damage.

2 The tenant or lessee must permit the landlord or lessor to inspect the object to the extent required for maintenance, sale or future leasing.

3 The landlord or lessor must inform the tenant or lessee of works and inspections in good time and take all due account of the latter's interests when they are carried out; all claims of the tenant or lessee for reduction of the rent (Art. 259d) and for damages (Art. 259e) are reserved.
Art. 261
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J. Change of ownership

I. Alienation of the object

1 Where after concluding the contract the landlord alienates the object or is dispossessed of it in debt collection or bankruptcy proceedings, the lease passes to the acquirer together with ownership of the object.

2 However, the new owner may:
a. serve notice to terminate a lease on residential or commercial premises as of the next legally admissible termination date if he claims an urgent need of such premises for himself, his close relatives or in-laws;
b. serve notice to terminate a rental agreement in respect of other objects as of the next legally admissible termination date unless the contract allows for earlier termination.

3 If the new owner terminates sooner than is permitted under the contract with the existing landlord or lessor, the latter is liable for all resultant losses.

4 The provisions governing compulsory purchase are unaffected.
Art. 266l
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IV. Required form of notice for residential and commercial premises

1. In general

1 Notice to terminate leases of residential and commercial premises must be given in writing.

2 The landlord must give notice of termination using a form approved by the canton which informs the tenant how he must proceed if he wishes to contest the termination or apply for an extension of the lease.
Art. 266n
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2. Family residence

b. Notice given by the landlord

Notice of termination given by the landlord and any notification of a time limit for payment accompanied by a warning of termination in the event of non-payment (Art. 257d) must be served separately on the tenant and on his spouse or registered partner.
Art. 266o
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3. Void notice

Notice of termination is void if it does not conform to Articles 266l-266n.
What happens when the house is sold with a tenant, a new landlords point of view Experience with the Schlichtungsbehörde as a landlord?
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Old 03.10.2019, 14:10
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Nonsense.

OP is for example by law obligated to allow viewings to potential buyers.
Yes they have to allow viewings, but I was talking about the OP taking photos (or similar things) as I thought that was what they were being asked to do when they said: "we are being plagued by an agent to take photos to put it on the market".

Last edited by Chuff; 03.10.2019 at 15:03. Reason: Edited for gender neutrality. :p
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Old 03.10.2019, 14:17
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Re: Owner selling up.

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As mentioned previously, the request to visit has come from the selling agent. We met the owner three weeks ago who thanked us for looking after the house, enquired if we still liked living there etc..we have a good relation with him. However, the message from the agent came when we were away on holiday after having told the owner we would be away for the next two weeks....the owner has a contract with us which includes a six month notice period, he has already missed the last deadline so according to the MV we now get to stay until the end of April. I naturally don't want to encourage him to be 'efficient' and the MV has told us...' do nothing, you have no obligations until the official notice arrives'
On the flip side, we may consider buying this house...but is has some serious flaws which we would use as a bargaining tool if we go down this route......in the meantime we are on the hunt with an open mind to buy or rent.
As for allowing photo's, there is no law that forces you to allow that, however keep in mind that if you are interested in buying the house it gives you a moment with the agent to talk about things before the house has been put up on the market including pictures and such. And in your rights or not, why upset the guy by making his job harder than it has to be? He might be your negotiation partner next month. Just schedule something when it fits you, remove/move what you do not want on the picture, have objections about the toilet on the picture, tell him to skip that. Being nice and cooperative perhaps gets him to say, "yeah I'll delay putting it up with a week, go have a talk with your bank, have a round with a builder and let me know what you can do?" Or maybe when you would have to leave they are nice and flexible to you instead or like you could have done purely sticking to the rules of the contract.
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Old 03.10.2019, 14:19
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Yes they have to allow viewings, but I was talking about the OP taking photos (or similar things) as I thought that was what she was being asked to do when she said: "we are being plagued by an agent to take photos to put it on the market".
Maybe than next time you should type what you want to say instead of:

Quote:
Ignore him, you have no obligation to take any photos or do anything other than leave the apartment in good condition after being given proper notice.
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Old 03.10.2019, 14:21
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Re: Owner selling up.

I believe "Eigenbedarf" is a killer for the tenant.

If it's a house you're living in, the new owner will most likely want to move into it. If it's only one flat of many in the house, they might want to keep renting it out.

If I were in your shoes I would get as much information on your specific situation, keeping it friendly so the owner is willing to keep you updated instead of preparing for a fight you don't even know the details of yet. Not to mention that in the long run you would lose such a fight, all you could do is stalling to move out.
Best solution: Buy the house
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Old 03.10.2019, 14:48
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Re: Owner selling up.

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Maybe than next time you should type what you want to say instead of:
My sincere apologies Edwin, I forget how anally retentive some of us can be.
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