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Old 03.10.2019, 14:30
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Trouble getting off lease

Hello,
Its my first post, hope its in the right area.

Long story short, ive seperated from my ex (never married) and moved out of the apartment to another.
We have a son who will stay living with her and will be with me two weekends per month.
Both our names are on the lease.

Ive contacted the Regie to take my name off the lease but they wont until my ex shows she has at minimum 3xmonthly rent cost in her salary each month or she finds a quarentor to sign the lease with her.

She doesnt earn that much but I will be paying her maintenance each month for our son (lawyers are late to agree on how much but thats in progress).

For this month and this month only, in agreement with the 2 lawyers ive transfered half the rent to her account even though i moved out 30 September. Her lawyer agreed (assuming he agreed with her first) that she will pay the other half this month. Now she is claiming she doesnt have the other half and I fear she will spend the half i transfered to her on something else.

I cancelled the direct debit for the rent of old place meaning we both will get a letter from the regie any day now.

Has anyone gone through something similar or can anyone give any advice on how i can get off this lease as quick as possible. I cannot afford to pay new apartment and half of old + maintenance payments+lawyer every month.

Ive tried to put a bit of pressure on the lawyer regarding this but hes telling me also im not his only client and he has lots to deal with etc etc (not very professional but way too late to change lawyer).

thanks
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Old 03.10.2019, 14:59
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

Two ways out:

She shows she has enough income to pay for it all herself.
Cancel the rent and leave the apartment.

I don't see another way out, you can't force the landlord to only agree on a contract with somebody who is not according to the norm (yet) capable of paying the rent herself.

Problem is that if the landlord agrees on a contract with her and in future he'd have to explain to a judge why he is entitled to al the money she still might have to pay him, the judge will also ask him "But why did you rent out to somebody who could not pay it anyway, what did you expect to happen?"
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Old 03.10.2019, 15:11
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

thank you for your reply Edwin,

the problem is, shes doing "nothing".

She wants to stay in the apartment with my son, but her salary is not 3x rent value, so she also knows she needs a guarentor to sign the lease.
The regie have told her that, ive told her that, her lawyer has told her that.

She could ask her new boyfriend to sign, or her boss, frankly thats not my problem who she asks to be a guarentor.
But she is sitting back and doing nothing and in the meantime we will receive a warning letter this week the regie has already told us.

Ive paid my half of the rent to her as instructed by both lawyers and its documented in a letter from them.
She is now claiming she doesnt have the other half of the rent even though she was paid 2 days ago from her job.

So as shes sitting back doing nothing the following will happen

1. we will receive the warning letter from regie.
2. a period after that (maybe another warning, i dont know) she and my son could be asked to leave the apartment ??
3. we both get poursuites ?
4. she cant find new apartment as she has a poursuite ?

I am not responsbile to pay the second half of the rent, i dont live there anymore and i already paid her maintenance for my son (as agreed by both lawers, until the Judge decides the official amount)

Im tied to the lease with disasterous consequences for me because she wont do what she is supposed to do...
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Old 03.10.2019, 15:16
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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thank you for your reply Edwin,

the problem is, shes doing "nothing".

She wants to stay in the apartment with my son, but her salary is not 3x rent value, so she also knows she needs a guarentor to sign the lease.
The regie have told her that, ive told her that, her lawyer has told her that.

She could ask her new boyfriend to sign, or her boss, frankly thats not my problem who she asks to be a guarentor.
But she is sitting back and doing nothing and in the meantime we will receive a warning letter this week the regie has already told us.

Ive paid my half of the rent to her as instructed by both lawyers and its documented in a letter from them.
She is now claiming she doesnt have the other half of the rent even though she was paid 2 days ago from her job.

So as shes sitting back doing nothing the following will happen

1. we will receive the warning letter from regie.
2. a period after that (maybe another warning, i dont know) she and my son could be asked to leave the apartment ??
3. we both get poursuites ?
4. she cant find new apartment as she has a poursuite ?

I am not responsbile to pay the second half of the rent, i dont live there anymore and i already paid her maintenance for my son (as agreed by both lawers, until the Judge decides the official amount)

Im tied to the lease with disasterous consequences for me because she wont do what she is supposed to do...
Afraid you totally are responsible while your name is on there.. If the regie can't get money from one, they'll go for the other, they don't care which.

You could let it go to poursuite and eviction, that closes the issue of getting you off the lease.. But you'd still have all of the debt, both of you would still owe 100%, not 50% each.
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Old 03.10.2019, 15:19
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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Two ways out:

She shows she has enough income to pay for it all herself.
Cancel the rent and leave the apartment.

I don't see another way out, you can't force the landlord to only agree on a contract with somebody who is not according to the norm (yet) capable of paying the rent herself.

Problem is that if the landlord agrees on a contract with her and in future he'd have to explain to a judge why he is entitled to all the money she still might have to pay him, the judge will also ask him "But why did you rent out to somebody who could not pay it anyway, what did you expect to happen?"
I may be wrong, but I don't think you can cancel the rental contract single-sidedly.

When we moved out of our apartment a few months ago, my partner had to co-sign the cancellation letter or the landlord would reject it. The reasoning we got was to avoid someone cancelling the rental in case of a breakup. Not sure if it's just my landlord that requested it, or if it's a legal requirement.

My understanding of rental in CH is that both parties in a couple are fully liable. If one party defaults, the other pays the full amount. The landlord doesn't care that you paid your 50% - he/she wants/deserves their full payment.

My suggestion (as not a lawyer), is to first speak to both lawyers proposing that you pay the full amount to the landlord, and she then owes you 50% back. Agree this for a fixed period - 3 or 6 months, during which time the rental is either cancelled or moved.

When/if she doesn't repay you back the 50%, file a claim against her.
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Old 03.10.2019, 15:20
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Yes, unforuntetly legally entitled as my name is still on it, but i cant get off the lease without her doing what she needs to do.

So she will drag it out and drag us both to poursuite..

if anyone has any other advice, has been there, or knows someone that has been there Id appreciate all the advice i can get

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I may be wrong, but I don't think you can cancel the rental contract single-sidedly.

When we moved out of our apartment a few months ago, my partner had to co-sign the cancellation letter or the landlord would reject it. The reasoning we got was to avoid someone cancelling the rental in case of a breakup. Not sure if it's just my landlord that requested it, or if it's a legal requirement.
You are right, i cant cancel it single sidedly, theyve told me this

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My suggestion (as not a lawyer), is to first speak to both lawyers proposing that you pay the full amount to the landlord, and she then owes you 50% back. Agree this for a fixed period - 3 or 6 months, during which time the rental is either cancelled or moved.

When/if she doesn't repay you back the 50%, file a claim against her.

I have thought about this.. she will never pay it.. she wont care about the "file against her".. i cant afford an additional 2000CHF per month for an unspecified about of time.. and she would just take advantage of it and still not do anything..

thank you for the suggestion all the same,

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.10.2019 at 18:27. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 03.10.2019, 15:36
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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I have thought about this.. she will never pay it.. she wont care about the "file against her".. i cant afford an additional 2000CHF per month for an unspecified about of time.. and she would just take advantage of it and still not do anything..

thank you for the suggestion all the same,
It gets very challenging when children are involved - as they will inevitably suffer the consequences.

Suggest thinking about what would happen if you don't pay... you both get poursuites, and you both end up in court.

The landlord is "right" at that point, and you still have to pay for an unspecified amount of time. You then need to file against her anyhow if you want any money back...

During the whole process, what happens to the kids? It's a sh*tty situation to be in, I don't envy you.
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Old 03.10.2019, 15:48
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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It gets very challenging when children are involved - as they will inevitably suffer the consequences.

Suggest thinking about what would happen if you don't pay... you both get poursuites, and you both end up in court.

The landlord is "right" at that point, and you still have to pay for an unspecified amount of time. You then need to file against her anyhow if you want any money back...

During the whole process, what happens to the kids? It's a sh*tty situation to be in, I don't envy you.

Unfortunetly and inevitably my son will suffer, ive tried so much to avoid this, ive stayed there for years only for him but that is no longer sustainable and my health has severely suffered as a result of staying in a toxic environment where i have been assaulted, abused (yes it happens to men too) etc but thats a different story.

The landlord is right, at the end of the day they want their money, there is 2 people on the lease so each person is 100% responsibile for that. I get that.
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Old 03.10.2019, 16:04
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

If she keeps on refusing, than you could ask the landlord to see if they have a reason to cancel the contract on their initiative (very unlikely and she could protest it, but your easy way out if it works)

Else you'd have to make your case in court to attempt to cancel the contract without her permission. This is not the easy way out, and it is unclear upfront if this will be granted, especially since your son lives in the house. But your case gets stronger if you can proof that you found other suitable apartments for her that fit her financials and that you offered to pay the moving costs if needed but that she refused such offers. It makes you a reasonable person who is looking for a solution instead of just getting out of the situation, and she's the one frustrating everything. Just discuss this option with your lawyer.
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Old 03.10.2019, 16:30
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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If she keeps on refusing, than you could ask the landlord to see if they have a reason to cancel the contract on their initiative (very unlikely and she could protest it, but your easy way out if it works)

Else you'd have to make your case in court to attempt to cancel the contract without her permission. This is not the easy way out, and it is unclear upfront if this will be granted, especially since your son lives in the house. But your case gets stronger if you can proof that you found other suitable apartments for her that fit her financials and that you offered to pay the moving costs if needed but that she refused such offers. It makes you a reasonable person who is looking for a solution instead of just getting out of the situation, and she's the one frustrating everything. Just discuss this option with your lawyer.
Thanks for the advice Edwin, ill absorb all this and will speak with my lawyer early next week.. Unfortunetly he is not that helpful in regards to the "lease" part, as hes tied up (his own words) on trying to finalize visitation for my son and my official final maintenance..
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Old 03.10.2019, 16:42
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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Not sure if it's just my landlord that requested it, or if it's a legal requirement.
It is a legal requirement.

Striking one name from the contract is like canceling the old one, and making a new contract with the remaining parties. The old contract can only be cancelled with the consent of all involved parties, and also a new contract can only be made with the consent of the remaining parties.

How to get out of it? The co-signing partners form a "simple partnership"
https://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu/en/home...rtnership.html

The simple partnership can be dissolved with a 6 month notice period, by court order, or is automatically dissolved when the purpose of the partnership has been achieved. Art. 545 and 546 Code of Obligations https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a545
One could argue that the purpose of the simple partnership (create by jointly signing the contract) was to live in the same apartment. With one party moving out the purpose no longer exists and the partnership can be liquidated. In liquidation you can force (may need a court order) the other partner to co-sign the cancellation of the rental contract.


https://www.geissmannlegal.ch/filead...08.2015_PG.pdf
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Old 03.10.2019, 16:57
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

Main mistake: You should have moved her out instead of leaving yourself. That's what I did for exactly the reasons that cause you problems now.

You could still solve that by helping her finding a place at a reasonable price and you move back into the flat for now, changing the contract to your name only. You can still move on anytime you like after that. By helping I mean speeding the search up, NOT sign or to stand surety for it!!!!)

I know you said she wants to stay in that flat but she has just proven (in the first month already and when it was only about half the rent!) that this is not possible. You got a big enough argument already.

You need to sort these basic things out now or you will have a lingering problem in addition to what ever comes your way, being connected for life via your child.
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Old 04.10.2019, 11:18
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It is a legal requirement.

Striking one name from the contract is like canceling the old one, and making a new contract with the remaining parties. The old contract can only be cancelled with the consent of all involved parties, and also a new contract can only be made with the consent of the remaining parties.

How to get out of it? The co-signing partners form a "simple partnership"
https://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu/en/home...rtnership.html

The simple partnership can be dissolved with a 6 month notice period, by court order, or is automatically dissolved when the purpose of the partnership has been achieved. Art. 545 and 546 Code of Obligations https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a545
One could argue that the purpose of the simple partnership (create by jointly signing the contract) was to live in the same apartment. With one party moving out the purpose no longer exists and the partnership can be liquidated. In liquidation you can force (may need a court order) the other partner to co-sign the cancellation of the rental contract.


https://www.geissmannlegal.ch/filead...08.2015_PG.pdf
Thank you for your advice, this looks interesting.. I just translated the German document into english.. I will read over it again, and mention it also to my lawyer (as he doesnt appear to be helping with any suggestions)..

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Main mistake: You should have moved her out instead of leaving yourself. That's what I did for exactly the reasons that cause you problems now.

You could still solve that by helping her finding a place at a reasonable price and you move back into the flat for now, changing the contract to your name only. You can still move on anytime you like after that. By helping I mean speeding the search up, NOT sign or to stand surety for it!!!!)

I know you said she wants to stay in that flat but she has just proven (in the first month already and when it was only about half the rent!) that this is not possible. You got a big enough argument already.

You need to sort these basic things out now or you will have a lingering problem in addition to what ever comes your way, being connected for life via your child.

Thank you for your reply, but i dont see it as a mistake..
1. I didnt want to kick my son out of his own home.
2. The judge recommended that i should move out (even though i was the one assaulted, hospitalised, abused for years)

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.10.2019 at 14:08. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 04.10.2019, 11:56
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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Thank you for your reply, but i dont see it as a mistake..
1. I didnt want to kick my son out of his own home.
2. The judge recommended that i should move out (even though i was the one assaulted, hospitalised, abused for years)
I said nothing about kicking anybody out. I suggested helping to settle them in a home that is affordable to be a long term home.
When family situations change I believe the best way to handle them is go straight for the solutions that enable all parties involved to move on.

She can not afford the rent, that is a simple fact as 1/3 rent of income is a traditional demand here by landlords.
So there are two possibilities: You help them find a home, where they can feel secure long term or you pay rent for the place they live in now. Looking for a third solution is a waste of time, although a popular pastime apparently

Anyway, all the best.
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Old 04.10.2019, 12:03
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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I said nothing about kicking anybody out. I suggested helping to settle them in a home that is affordable to be a long term home. When family situations change I believe the best way to handle them is go straight for the solutions that enable all parties involved to move on.

She can not afford the rent, that is a simple fact as 1/3 rent of income is a traditional demand here by landlords.
So there are two possibilities: You help them find a home, where they can feel secure long term or you pay rent for the place they live in now. Looking for a third solution is a waste of time, although a popular pastime apparently

Anyway, all the best.

Ive tried and tried and tried over and over to suggest ill help her find another place ,, but
1. Shes to stubborn and wont listen to anyone and is adament shes staying there to the bitter end
2. The price is the same now as it was 10 years ago, so she knows she will never get a 3 bedroom apartment with a view on the lake for that price again.


Im with you on trying to find solutions rather than more problems, ive paid for mediation sessions but she didnt put the effort in so it was a waste of money from my side.

She can technically afford the rent, with the help of my maintenance contributions (yet to be officially finalized but we have a close figure), but she doesnt have the 3x rent income which is the Agency requirement and/or shes too stubborn to look for a Guarentor (which could be her boss, her new boyfriend, etc).

As you say, there are only 2 solutions .. and she for now is not willing to do her bit...
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Old 04.10.2019, 12:14
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

Instead of you giving notice, can you get the owner/regie to cancel the contract? Once they need to chase the rent, they'll probably come after you for that, you may have a lever as nobody enjoys those extra efforts.

ETA:
Perhaps you could move back in and become an unbearable renter so you're given notice. Just a thought.

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Old 04.10.2019, 12:16
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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Instead of you giving notice, can you get the owner/regie to cancel the contract? Once they need to chase the rent, they'll probably come after you for that, you may have leverage.
Ive asked them and they said no.. but they will soon start to chase rent as it was due 4 days ago.. I will speak to them again after her and I receive missed payment letter..
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Old 04.10.2019, 12:30
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

Can't help a lot here, but if you're worried about her spending your part of the rent money, can you pay it direct into the agency's bank account instead?
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Old 04.10.2019, 12:32
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

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Instead of you giving notice, can you get the owner/regie to cancel the contract? Once they need to chase the rent, they'll probably come after you for that, you may have a lever as nobody enjoys those extra efforts.
No legal basis for that.

edit: I just read, the one leaving can ask the landlord to do that yet the landlord has no obligation to do so. So having a serious/open talk to the landlord might be an idea after all.

OP, if you speak German, here's some information.

second edit: Oooops, Lausanne, you probably don't.

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Ive asked them and they said no.. but they will soon start to chase rent as it was due 4 days ago.. I will speak to them again after her and I receive missed payment letter..
They will chase you. They don't care which one on the contract pays but one of them has to and whether you gave her the money and she didn't pass it on to them won't be of interest to them either. Could mean a Betreibung for you sooner or later - and the Betreibung comes long before a termination of contract!!

She has a new boyfriend? Wouldn't he like to move in?
He has no obligations but maybe he could be tempted?
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Old 04.10.2019, 12:47
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Re: Trouble getting off lease

It sounds as if she knows you are responsible 100% for the rent and she is happy to not pay and force you to pay it.

How about if you didn't pay and they started the eviction process? Wouldn't she have to move out? Before anyone says your son will suffer, why should he? You can offer to have him with you in case she is thrown out until she finds a suitable place and I am sure her new boyfriend can have her for a couple of weeks. Not everybody can live in an apartment with a lake view and if she doesn't want to pay her half and can't be bothered to find a solution, why should you be the one who suffers?
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