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Old 22.10.2019, 12:37
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Re: Heating questions..

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Yes and that's helpful. Thank you.
I don't think gas is going to be frowned upon that soon as the pipes in the road were apparently only laid about 4 or 5 years ago here, a couple of years before we moved, so its new in this street.
Meanwhile we are keeping our options open.

Does this include the electricity that the heat pump uses however and does it include water?
I assume it does not include maintenance.
Also, how much did you pay for the installation and pump itself? 550 francs per year seems good. I think we pay double that to heat and provide hot water for a 4-room flat using a combination of oil and electricity.
I'm interested to know how long it takes to break even with these systems. Our neighbours have one, but theirs was so expensive that it will take another 20 years to break even and they've already had it 10 years!! This put me off heat pumps!
When I looked at a heat pump I reckoned repay period likely exceeded the life of the system. I suspect there will be huge repairs before the 30 years are up.
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  #22  
Old 22.10.2019, 12:45
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Re: Heating questions..

The figures I mentioned above 7K and 2.5K were annual total electricity bills. Our stoves and ovens are electric included in these amounts.
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Old 22.10.2019, 12:47
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Re: Heating questions..

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When I looked at a heat pump I reckoned repay period likely exceeded the life of the system. I suspect there will be huge repairs before the 30 years are up.
I haven't looked into heating systems but may need to do so soon. Looking to buy a place with oil heating (and radiators, not underfloor). I plan to just leave the current system in place and deal with the oil delivery 'hassle' until forced to change the system.

I didn't run any calculations, but assumed that it would be cheaper than putting something more efficient in place.

However, maybe I'm wrong and there's potential to upgrade and save at the same time if the upgrade is financed with a cheap mortgage and the annual savings outpace interest and repay capital?
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Old 22.10.2019, 12:51
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Re: Heating questions..

From a first look it does not look like Würenlos might be connected to a gas network
https://gazenergie.ch/de/ueber-uns/mitglieder/

A closer look shows that Stadwerke Baden does not serve Würenlos
https://www.regionalwerke.ch/fileadm...s_12.01.18.pdf and Dietikon seems to serve Dietikon only.
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Old 22.10.2019, 13:07
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Re: Heating questions..

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So they don't have to dig all the way from the street to the property?

No, they "shoot" the connection to/from the main line. Don´t ask me how exactly, but we only had that one hole in our garden.
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Old 22.10.2019, 13:09
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Re: Heating questions..

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However, maybe I'm wrong and there's potential to upgrade and save at the same time if the upgrade is financed with a cheap mortgage and the annual savings outpace interest and repay capital?
In Vaud the Canton contributes about 10% of the price of upgrading to PAC. But it doesn't make sense if you don't already have the underfloor heating.
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Old 22.10.2019, 15:36
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Re: Heating questions..

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Does this include the electricity that the heat pump uses however and does it include water?
I assume it does not include maintenance.
Also, how much did you pay for the installation and pump itself? 550 francs per year seems good. I think we pay double that to heat and provide hot water for a 4-room flat using a combination of oil and electricity.
I'm interested to know how long it takes to break even with these systems. Our neighbours have one, but theirs was so expensive that it will take another 20 years to break even and they've already had it 10 years!! This put me off heat pumps!
The water to make hot water is extra, but not much - our total water bill is under CHF200 (metered). The heat pump was part of a new build, so can‘t tell you exactly, but would guess around CHF30,000.

We asked the architect if we should have the recommended service contract at CHF400 a year. He said it was not necessary. So after 11 years running without problem we thought we should have one this year. Nothing needed doing. It took the engineer 30 minutes and cost CHF120.00...
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Old 22.10.2019, 15:40
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Re: Heating questions..

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I would think carefully about installing a gas boiler. The regulations allow it at the moment but things may change in the next few years.
Why so ?
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Old 22.10.2019, 15:41
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Re: Heating questions..

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Why so ?
dumb greenies wanting us to stop burning fossil fuels and instead derive our heating from thermal, solar, wind or homeopathic crystals.
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Old 22.10.2019, 17:23
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Re: Heating questions..

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dumb greenies wanting us to stop burning fossil fuels and instead derive our heating from thermal, solar, wind or homeopathic crystals.
The homeopathic crystals sound good. How does that work exactly?
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Old 22.10.2019, 17:51
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Re: Heating questions..

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The homeopathic crystals sound good. How does that work exactly?
You put the crystal in the living room and gather around it and think warm thoughts. Then you die of hypothermia and save immensely on future heating costs.
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  #32  
Old 22.10.2019, 20:59
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Re: Heating questions..

Thanks for everyones replies, seems Wurenlos does not have gas heating, which leaves us with 2 options:

1. Deal with stinky old oil tanks in a basement area that we would very much like to convert to liveable space
2. Convert to warmepumpe or wood chip burner

Now for whom to consult on the options. The house is older, 1920's with radiator heaters so the warme pumpe may not be the best option.
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  #33  
Old 22.10.2019, 21:30
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Re: Heating questions..

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Thanks for everyones replies, seems Wurenlos does not have gas heating, which leaves us with 2 options:

1. Deal with stinky old oil tanks in a basement area that we would very much like to convert to liveable space
2. Convert to warmepumpe or wood chip burner

I haven't looked into it myself and it would depend on the size of your place and your hot water requirements but have you considered an electric boiler.

Unlike gas or oil which as fairly inefficient, electric boilers do not have a chimney/flue and are 99% efficient so even if running costs are higher, there will be some kind of efficiency offset. They're cheaper to install as well.

Perhaps worth looking into?
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Old 23.10.2019, 01:29
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Re: Heating questions..

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Thanks for everyones replies, seems Wurenlos does not have gas heating, which leaves us with 2 options:

1. Deal with stinky old oil tanks in a basement area that we would very much like to convert to liveable space
2. Convert to warmepumpe or wood chip burner

Now for whom to consult on the options. The house is older, 1920's with radiator heaters so the warme pumpe may not be the best option.
Seems to me that you should have looked into the heating system BEFORE you bought the house. A heating specialist would have been the person to consult. How old is the oil burner? Replacing that may be your only option.
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  #35  
Old 23.10.2019, 02:08
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Re: Heating questions..

We're just about to install heating, from scratch, in our 1907 (later enlarged) chalet, so I've looked at some of the options in some detail.

We're going for a pellet-fired system, for better long-term costs compared with the uncertainty of future oil prices.

The other possible option was geothermal, but at this altitude it would have required a lot of drilling (3 pipes at 100m) and left many doubts as to the actual efficacy of heating the house and enough water for up to 20 people. Air-based heat pump was out of the question up here, and solar is just a joke, given that the roof is covered in snow for half the year.

So, a couple of things to bear in mind for upgrading an existing system. If you go for a heat pump approach your existing piping and radiators would all, ideally, need replacing too. Well, the radiators at least, because the max heating water temperature is only going to be around 40 degC. Similarly for the hot water itself, you'll need an awful lot more of it because of the lower temperature. Also the speed of heating up the house from cold will be very much reduced.

Depending on size and number of occupants these may be more or less important to you. For us they were a huge concern, and coupled with the fact that the geothermal system (including special radiators designed for it) was going to cost something like 100k more than for the pellets, giving a 20-30 year return on investment, it simply dropped out of our equation.

I'm not 100% sure how much these issues would affect an air-based hear exchanger system, but do think very carefully about hidden costs - it's not just a question of swapping the heat pump in to replace the boiler, not by a long chalk.
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  #36  
Old 23.10.2019, 08:20
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Re: Heating questions..

And do remember that if you change the heating type you will need a building permit (not if you just upgrade the burner).
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Old 23.10.2019, 09:56
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Re: Heating questions..

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The figures I mentioned above 7K and 2.5K were annual total electricity bills. Our stoves and ovens are electric included in these amounts.
Were you mining a lot of bitcoin? What kind of Batcave do you own!
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Old 23.10.2019, 10:33
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Re: Heating questions..

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Were you mining a lot of bitcoin? What kind of Batcave do you own!
Nothing special, just an inefficient electric boiler that, in the winter, was running 24/7 and still unable to keep the place warm. Large hot water tank too, running of electricity as well.

The first electricity bill we got was a bit of a shock.
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Old 23.10.2019, 14:51
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Re: Heating questions..

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The heat pump was part of a new build, so can‘t tell you exactly, but would guess around CHF30,000.
Exactly that. I'm installing one right now (build date is set for 3 weeks from today), and the whole thing, including a small foundation for the gear to sit on, a noise-dampening shield, and a large buffer tank, will cost me 32K.
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Old 24.10.2019, 14:32
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Re: Heating questions..

OP, as you live in Aargau you will no doubt also recently have had a copy of the "Energie Journal" popped through your letter box. There are some interesting articles in there, particularly one about renovating an old building and bringing it up to more modern standards.
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