if buying an old apartment, my estimation is 80-100K just to completely renovate the bath and kitchen. just a rough estimate.
My wife thinks this is exaggerated.

I think for the bathroom for example no way that fixtures, tiles etc cost more than 10K together. But... removing the old tiles costs, the work for adding new tiles, having dry everything etc
Same as for kitchen..default kitchen plus appliances maybe 25K, unforeseen costs, garbage, taking out the old kitchen, plumbing, electricat, at lease 15K. So I thing actually 50K for the kitchen would be not very far from the truth.

If I imagine saving for the renovation works, then 100K would be 1K every month for almost 10y. Not really little.
Am I too pessimistic?

Depends on the size of the kitchen and bathroom. We have had quotes for fully replacing our kitchen. Maybe it's about 6m of wall length total, so not massive. Quotes were between 17k and 29k for everything (removal, disposal etc) apart from the plumber and electrician costs.

Depends. If you're going for top spec, exotic materials, custom-made, etc. then 50k for a kitchen is achievable, but at the mother end if it's a standard shape and size you might be able to pick one up from somewhere like Lipo for as little as 3 or 4 thousand, plus a couple of days labour costs to fit it. Certainly under 10 grand is also achievable.

FWIW I've just installed an Ikea kitchen in one flat, which was very limited for space, but very happy with the result. Cost of materials was just over 2k for the Ikea stuff and a paltry 500 or so for cannily-sourced appliances off Anibis and Amazon. Took me far longer to fit than a professional, with a lot of learnings made en route, but the next one I'd hope to be able to put in within a week or so, with some helping hands.

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Ski and Bike heaven in the Swiss alps

how long did it take you?

Didn;t count it up in hours, but I did it over the course of about three weeks, with some days full on and others doing nothing at all, mostly more like 4-5 hours a day. But also doing other renovation work in the same period.

So what, a hundred hours, perhaps? and maybe around twenty from my other half for the jobs that needed two pairs of hands. Worth bearing in mind that this was very much a non-standard size, so a fair bit of cutting to fit was included.

Knowing what I know now I'd expect it to take around half of that. Only putting the units in once, for example, instead of pulling several of them out to redo something better would help, for a start.

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Ski and Bike heaven in the Swiss alps

doesn't sound too bad. which parts were the most surprisingly time consuming?

I have put in Ikea kitchen's in in a couple of days, about 3 meters of base & wall units 2/3 of the time is building the Units. Pluming & electrics 1/2 day on top of that but thats probably not allowed in CH

Wish I had the skills to plan and fit a kitchen

The first tall unit, cutting it down from 220cm to fit the 206cm height, fitting the oven and fridge into it (not designed for both) cutting extra bits of door material to fill gaps/lengthen doors, all not helped by the 45cm high combi oven and similarly the half-height dishwasher.




Sure it is. I did have an electrician in to changer a couple of circuits from 3-phase to single, but he was happy that I'd do some of the wiring, and certainly installing the sockets and switches, myself. He did a quick test of the new circuit after he'd fitted the new interrupter, but that wasn't required from the perspective of having done it myself.

Plumbing was a doddle anyway, but I can't see any reason why you might not be allowed to do it yourself.

They do a good planning service in store at Ikea, with a decent toolkit to help the process, and will happily spend the two or three hours it takes to get all the details right. Very helpful, they were, although we ended up with just a few items spare, which I'll be returning this week.

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Ski and Bike heaven in the Swiss alps

You had a lot of fiddly bits to do. I guess it would have all gone in quicker if you didn't have to modify units and had standard sized appliances.

Regarding plumbing, I agree that you should be able to do this yourself. But I'm not so sure on electrics: i would have thought that you'd need at least some kind of certification of the work where electricity is going to be close to water - but I would be happy to be proved wrong!

Renovation costs can vary widely not only because of the size of the room, but ripping out the old can sometimes lead to some unexpected suprises.

If you plan to change the layout of the room, this will likely involve more electrical and plumbing work than if you just replace old with new in the existing place in the room.

You can save money if you can rip out the old things yourself. Disposal fees are unavoidable, and if your are in an apartment, it could be difficult for you to arrange a dumpster depending on the exact situation of your unit. Another thing to consider is that you are responsible for keeping the common areas of the building clean during the renovation.

Renovating in a house is very different to an apartment. You likely have to inform other residents in advance and possibly obtain permission. You must absolutely respect the noise rules.

In your shoes I would look for a general contractor, they have the contacts and the know how to get the work done.

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Have you already bought the apartment? If not yet, it's better to consider all these costs before buying. If it's an old building and the apartment hasn't been renovated for a long time you don't know what other (structural) flaws you may find beneath all those tiles and floors etc. and how the costs can increase even beyond a reasonably large budget...

The rules about water and power have been linked to here in the past, but there's no concept of needing a 3rd-party certificate to confirm that you've abided by them.

As I mentioned in this case I needed an electrician to change a couple of circuits over to single phase, and he would only do so if I replaced an existing white wire with a 2.5mm blue one, and that new sockets I fitted on those circuits were ones with square pin ones suitable for a 16A supply (which he even supplied for me to fit) but this is about ensuring his own work conforms, as he was connecting those circuits up. And again there's no concept of a certificate for the new wor I did.

Periodic inspections are required, or when selling a house, but are a different thing, nothing to do with new work, just ensuring that there aren't any visibly broken sockets or boxes or loose wires and that a circuit check is done on each outlet.

I accept that if you're a city/apartment dweller then you might be find that paying disposal fees is the best or only workable solution, but if you have a suitable vehicle and other logistics can be made to work there's no reason this needs to be the case.

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Ski and Bike heaven in the Swiss alps

The actual cost is a bout the same as it cost's to buy a piece of string.....

no, no buying in sight. but just wondering (I see there are many old apartments coming on the market)

what kind of structural flaws do you mean?

What kind of costs would be incurred for the general contractor, more than the separate costs added?

How long is a piece of string again ?


Without seeing it, checking it, knowing approximately what you want and what quality you are expecting, it is imposible to tell you anything.


I can by the 5 kitchen appliances (hob, extracteurm oven, dischwasher & fridge) for less than Chf 2k, i can also spend Chf 20k.


All going well, no problems encountered, all work carried out by companies, a kitchen will cost from Chf 25-50k, a bathroom from Chf 18-30k, all very approximate......

Does this concept really exist here?

If you're getting someone to install it for you then I would expect them to do any coordination required, so it shouldn't incur additional costs, but it you're using someone specifically as a project manager who're not actually doing the work themselves then you're paying just for their time on top of the actual work to be done.

I wouldn't go down that route myself, but certainly have made sure that the main worker in any instance is going to make sure any others are organised properly. For example the heating people currently drilling holes for radiator piping in the ground floor will coordinate the elecrician and the chimney installer and anyone else required. That's their job, and there shouldn't be any need for anyone else to be involved at that level.

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Ski and Bike heaven in the Swiss alps

The concept exists and for somebody who really doesn't quite know what they are doing it will almost certainly result in the best outcome.


A general contractor will or should take responsabilty to get the job finished, on time and in budget...theoretically

Yes I also believe so... especially if you are working and not at home during all the renovation works...