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Old 07.01.2020, 20:27
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Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Hey guys,

I know this topic has been extensively discussed here but still looking for some guidance.
I am currently living in Dietikon with the wife and the family will grow soon. We are looking for a new apartment but I wanted to take the opportunity to evaluate other areas. We both make decent money (both around 120k) and, despite being very happy with the life here in Dietikon, I was looking to improve also the tax situation. Unfortunatly, because we only recently changer from B to C permit, I don't have an idea of the real difference it would make to change for a different Geminde. I have made several simulation online that point to a difference of about 11k a year between the most expensive and cheapper Geminde but not sure how accurate it is (any experiences here?).
Anyway, the one million Franc question is:

Wich living areas offer good connections with HB, infrastuctures for young families, decent rent prices and favourable taxes?

Does anyone found the Holy Grail and want to share?

Thanks and wishes of a great 2020!
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Old 07.01.2020, 21:50
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Not sure if the permit change really impacts the amount of tax you will pay.
In a sense, the savings are negated by other costs (low tax rates usually mean higher rentals like in Zug and Zurich compared to Basel for example). That has been my experience per se.
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Old 07.01.2020, 21:59
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Good question. This report, although from 2016, may give you an idea: https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/...nkommen-en.pdf

According to them, Kanton Aargau is kind of a sweet spot!
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Old 07.01.2020, 23:12
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Baar, canton Zug.
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Old 08.01.2020, 05:48
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

I wish you luck in finding your perfect spot. What I found is that lower tax almost always equals higher rent and more remoteness, hence then needing a car (or 2 if both work) versus using car sharing for example.

The homegate tax calculator assists you in figuring out just how much you can save: https://www.homegate.ch/moving/plann...tax-calculator

Please calculate everything well and don't forget to factor quality of life - being close to your work for example means a shorter commute and time with family. As your child grows you will be wanting to attend school events, doctor visits etc and being close makes it all that much easier. Also as your child grows you may want easy access to swimming classes or music or sport. Obvioulsy will depend on how you envision your life etc, just encouraging you to think about these parts too.

K
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Old 08.01.2020, 07:31
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Maybe you have tried this

https://en.comparis.ch/umzug-schweiz/kantone-schweiz
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Old 08.01.2020, 07:40
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

This is a bit old, but it gives you an idea https://blog.tagesanzeiger.ch/datenb...steuerparadies
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Old 08.01.2020, 07:42
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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Not sure if the permit change really impacts the amount of tax you will pay.
It does, as with a C you pay normal taxes.

Tom
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Old 08.01.2020, 09:57
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

This website may also help in rent comparison in a more visual way: https://www.immomapper.ch/en/real-es...rket/zurich-zh
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Old 08.01.2020, 10:15
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Apart from the inverse proportion of rent to taxes everyone has mentioned, bear in mind it's not all about the money. The feel of a town or village is crucial and, after all, you have to live there ultimately.
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Old 08.01.2020, 11:00
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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. I have made several simulation online that point to a difference of about 11k a year between the most expensive and cheapper Geminde but not sure how accurate it is (any experiences here?).
If you know your taxable income and only compare within one canton it is accurate to the last cent. If you guestimated your taxable income the relative differences between the communes are still accurate.

If you start to compare across cantons it becomes more tricky as the taxable income in canton A is not the same as in canton B. Nevertheless one can say the ZG in general is cheaper than ZH, and AG and SG more expensive than ZH (exceptions might apply).
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Old 08.01.2020, 12:53
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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Apart from the inverse proportion of rent to taxes everyone has mentioned, bear in mind it's not all about the money. The feel of a town or village is crucial and, after all, you have to live there ultimately.
Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

There are so many factors to take into consideration. If you are looking to rent rather than buy, be sure to find child friendly accommodation. Low taxes will be of little consolation compared to the aggravation from intolerant neighbours who hear a baby cry and complain.

We live in a village which can hardly be considered a low tax area, yet looking at the growing number of young families it is attractive as buying a property is within reach. There are very few apartments for rent, and when houses come up for rent they don't last long on the market. I think the choice to live here is a lifestyle choice.

I never recall choosing where to live based on taxes. Area, location, proximity to childcare, schools, public transport, commute to work- these were the considerations. Today when many people can occasionally or regularly work at home, the communte to work may be less significant.

I suggest you make a list of your priorities, leaving taxes as a consideration, but not top priority, and see what you find.
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Old 08.01.2020, 14:38
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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I never recall choosing where to live based on taxes. Area, location, proximity to childcare, schools, public transport, commute to work- these were the considerations. Today when many people can occasionally or regularly work at home, the communte to work may be less significant.

I suggest you make a list of your priorities, leaving taxes as a consideration, but not top priority, and see what you find.

When I first bought property in Switzerland we were looking at 2 villages on either side of a canton border. In the village with lower tax, we'd have saved around 12-15k per annum on tax, but at the time it had a totally soulless feel as a dormitory village (in our view) so we bought in the higher tax but more lively village instead
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Old 08.01.2020, 14:53
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

After reading this thread, it did make me wonder whether the people on this forum who moan about their Swiss neighbours being standoffish, unapproachable, and generally having no concern for anyone but themselves are those people who also have moved to the lowest tax areas with that being the only factor in making their decision.

Birds of a feather, flock together and all that....
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Old 08.01.2020, 16:15
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

Consider Ticino. Nicer climate, more easygoing than Swiss Germans, close to Malpensa (Lugano - MXP +-50 minutes) and now with a direct train. Rents are much cheaper than the Zurich area and considerable savings to be made on shopping.
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Old 08.01.2020, 16:29
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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Consider Ticino. Nicer climate, more easygoing than Swiss Germans, close to Malpensa (Lugano - MXP +-50 minutes) and now with a direct train.
The direct train to MXP takes about the same time as the train to ZRH!

Tom
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Old 08.01.2020, 17:04
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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Good question. This report, although from 2016, may give you an idea: https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/...nkommen-en.pdf

According to them, Kanton Aargau is kind of a sweet spot!
Thanks higgsboson! Really cool article!

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I wish you luck in finding your perfect spot. What I found is that lower tax almost always equals higher rent and more remoteness, hence then needing a car (or 2 if both work) versus using car sharing for example.

The homegate tax calculator assists you in figuring out just how much you can save: https://www.homegate.ch/moving/plann...tax-calculator

Please calculate everything well and don't forget to factor quality of life - being close to your work for example means a shorter commute and time with family. As your child grows you will be wanting to attend school events, doctor visits etc and being close makes it all that much easier. Also as your child grows you may want easy access to swimming classes or music or sport. Obvioulsy will depend on how you envision your life etc, just encouraging you to think about these parts too.

K
Thanks Kri! I guess my big if right now is to figure it out what are the potential deductions to know the taxable income. The calculator looks really cool!

I completely agree with what was said here! It takes a village to raise a child and i like to live in a warmth environment. I really like Dietikon as we are very centrally located and with all infrastructures nearby. But as we have to find a new apartment, it is always good to see if there are other better overall areas, that is how we ended in Dietikon in the first place!
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Old 09.01.2020, 00:13
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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The direct train to MXP takes about the same time as the train to ZRH!

Tom
And I would also say 50 mins driving to MPX is very optimistic with all the border traffic
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Old 09.01.2020, 09:33
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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And I would also say 50 mins driving to MPX is very optimistic with all the border traffic
I've even made it to Linate in 50 minutes!

Tom
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Old 09.01.2020, 11:45
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Re: Tips: Areas with good rent/taxes and families

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The direct train to MXP takes about the same time as the train to ZRH!

Tom
You're right Tom, though it is an hour faster and I believe that time will be further reduced by 25 minutes as there is talk about an express train that will only stop at the mainstations of Mendrisio, Varese and Gallarate.

It's also a lot cheaper and with the advantage there are no changes involved. Another advantage is fares ex MXP tend to be much cheaper than those out of Zurich, especially in the premium cabins.
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