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  #21  
Old 08.01.2020, 17:50
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Re: What's this stuff?

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Mix it with some milk and eat it.

If it tastes at all palatable, it may be Shredded Wheat.
Where is the difference?
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  #22  
Old 08.01.2020, 19:50
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Re: What's this stuff?

this is OSB 3

https://www.obi.ch/bauen/bauholz/c/1...1148-_0_0_2_48
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  #23  
Old 09.01.2020, 08:51
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Re: What's this stuff?

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this is OSB 3
No, that's not OSB.

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I think you might be right: maybe this: https://www.knaufinsulation.de/produkte/heraklith-c

so the wood wool, followed by chip board, followed by plaster layer.
He is 100% correct. Commonly used to provide insulation (temperature and noise), and is fairly flame retardant (there are other Heraklith products which are fire-proof). Extremely popular in Germany/Austria/Switzerland up until the 80s.

Depending on the shape of the hole you want to make, you can use a jigsaw (I recommend strongly against it, as Heraklith is not friendly to most jigsaw blades), a recip saw (provided you get a concrete demolition blade), or just a hole saw bit in a regular drill.
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  #24  
Old 09.01.2020, 09:39
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Re: What's this stuff?

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a recip saw (provided you get a concrete demolition blade), or just a hole saw bit in a regular drill.
i don't have a recip saw and holy crap $65 for a blade!

do i have a valid excuse to buy new toys though...
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  #25  
Old 09.01.2020, 10:00
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Re: What's this stuff?

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i don't have a recip saw and holy crap $65 for a blade!

do i have a valid excuse to buy new toys though...
At OBI and HORNBACH you can rent tools
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Old 09.01.2020, 10:38
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Re: What's this stuff?

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At OBI and HORNBACH you can rent tools
omg. you can even rent wall saws

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  #27  
Old 09.01.2020, 10:48
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Re: What's this stuff?

That makes no sense for a home owner, but it's common business practice to hire a company to cut walls (or core, it's the same contractor), and they charge you by the hole, or linear meter of cut wall.

Source: I worked for Hilti for 15 years.

Regarding the price of the blade, ignore the Hilti site. That's list price. If you are going to use it once, buy the cheapest suitable one, any brand. It'll wear maybe after 1 or 2 uses, but it doesn't matter to you. And as EastEnders said, you can rent the tool by the hour, half day, full day, or even week.
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  #28  
Old 09.01.2020, 11:25
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Re: What's this stuff?

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That makes no sense for a home owner, but it's common business practice to hire a company to cut walls (or core, it's the same contractor), and they charge you by the hole, or linear meter of cut wall.

Source: I worked for Hilti for 15 years.

Regarding the price of the blade, ignore the Hilti site. That's list price. If you are going to use it once, buy the cheapest suitable one, any brand. It'll wear maybe after 1 or 2 uses, but it doesn't matter to you. And as EastEnders said, you can rent the tool by the hour, half day, full day, or even week.
and what's the going rate for cutting a hole for a new window? i asked one firm, they wanted to charge 6k to make a hole in the concrete which seemed a bit steep, but I guess this is Switzerland...
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Old 09.01.2020, 12:16
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Re: What's this stuff?

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and what's the going rate for cutting a hole for a new window? i asked one firm, they wanted to charge 6k to make a hole in the concrete which seemed a bit steep, but I guess this is Switzerland...
If it is only the cutting part and no scaffolding or any other stuff like new support bar, replacing electrics etc.. is needed than 6K sounds incredible expensive, even for Switzerland. However walls can be very thick here and thickness matters a lot. for the price, also not being able to do it with a handsaw will add more.
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  #30  
Old 09.01.2020, 12:32
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Re: What's this stuff?

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and what's the going rate for cutting a hole for a new window? i asked one firm, they wanted to charge 6k to make a hole in the concrete which seemed a bit steep, but I guess this is Switzerland...
Diameter?
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  #31  
Old 09.01.2020, 12:43
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Re: What's this stuff?

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Diameter?
2m wide and however high a window is 1.6m? ~15cm thick concrete.
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  #32  
Old 09.01.2020, 13:05
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Re: What's this stuff?

Oh, it's wall-sawing, not a large core. It IS expensive, and it shouldn't surprise you that it CAN be around 5 grand. The problem is the following: the wall saw uses a round blade, so to reach what will be the window corners it needs to either "overcut", or you need to core corner holes before you start cutting. So you must anchor the diamond rig to the wall, core a hole, do the next corner, and then the last 2. Once you have all 4 corner holes you have to mount the rail on which the wall saw will run. Cut the first "line". The remove the tool, mount the rail for the second, and then the third, and the last one. Mouting the rail for a 2m cut takes AT LEAST 4 anchors, so that's 16 holes (around 16mm each) in reinforced concrete. Plus you have to cut the large concrete chunk into smaller pieces that you can dispose of. The concrete will weight between 1 and 1.5 tons.

So between coring the corner holes, mounting and levelling the rail 4 times, , etc, etc, etc (with the complexity that diamond saws and drills need water to keep the blades cool), cleaning after, disposal of concrete, etc...it's a half-day job. Plus tool depreciation.

So all in all, it's an expensive task. There's a silver lining: you can take over the challenge, and make it an all day hobby. Here's how:
  1. Get a regular PROFESSIONAL concrete drill, and a loooong drill bit that can punch through the wall. Mark the corners and drill the corner holes. Ideally you should use a 16 to 20mm drill bit.
  2. Rent the largest handheld gas saw and a concrete diamond blade. It'll probably be a 14"/35cm blade, which means you can only cut a bit less than half the diameter (the arbor in the center takes a bit off the cutting depth).
    Then proceed to cut full-depth from the inside AND the outside of the wall, guided by the holes you just punched. Obviously you start from the bottom edge of the window, and proceed upwards. If you don't, the dead weight of the concrete will prevent the blade from doing the bottom cut.
  3. As the window is BIG, the resulting chunks will be too large and heavy for you. Before finishing off the cut at the top, you may want to rinse and repeat vertically a few times. Doing that 9 times would yield ten ~125 kg pieces. Those are more manageable than a gigantic 1.25T concrete pillow.

It's overwhelming, but with enough elbow grease you can do it yourself. I assume doing this will take a full day (and it's as noisy as you can imagine, so factor that in).
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  #33  
Old 09.01.2020, 14:03
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Re: What's this stuff?

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Oh, it's wall-sawing, not a large core. It IS expensive, and it shouldn't surprise you that it CAN be around 5 grand. The problem is the following: the wall saw uses a round blade, so to reach what will be the window corners it needs to either "overcut", or you need to core corner holes before you start cutting. So you must anchor the diamond rig to the wall, core a hole, do the next corner, and then the last 2. Once you have all 4 corner holes you have to mount the rail on which the wall saw will run. Cut the first "line". The remove the tool, mount the rail for the second, and then the third, and the last one. Mouting the rail for a 2m cut takes AT LEAST 4 anchors, so that's 16 holes (around 16mm each) in reinforced concrete. Plus you have to cut the large concrete chunk into smaller pieces that you can dispose of. The concrete will weight between 1 and 1.5 tons.

So between coring the corner holes, mounting and levelling the rail 4 times, , etc, etc, etc (with the complexity that diamond saws and drills need water to keep the blades cool), cleaning after, disposal of concrete, etc...it's a half-day job. Plus tool depreciation.

So all in all, it's an expensive task. There's a silver lining: you can take over the challenge, and make it an all day hobby. Here's how:
  1. Get a regular PROFESSIONAL concrete drill, and a loooong drill bit that can punch through the wall. Mark the corners and drill the corner holes. Ideally you should use a 16 to 20mm drill bit.
  2. Rent the largest handheld gas saw and a concrete diamond blade. It'll probably be a 14"/35cm blade, which means you can only cut a bit less than half the diameter (the arbor in the center takes a bit off the cutting depth).
    Then proceed to cut full-depth from the inside AND the outside of the wall, guided by the holes you just punched. Obviously you start from the bottom edge of the window, and proceed upwards. If you don't, the dead weight of the concrete will prevent the blade from doing the bottom cut.
  3. As the window is BIG, the resulting chunks will be too large and heavy for you. Before finishing off the cut at the top, you may want to rinse and repeat vertically a few times. Doing that 9 times would yield ten ~125 kg pieces. Those are more manageable than a gigantic 1.25T concrete pillow.

It's overwhelming, but with enough elbow grease you can do it yourself. I assume doing this will take a full day (and it's as noisy as you can imagine, so factor that in).
I agree it is at least a 1/2 day job. But I was thinking even if it was 8 hours @ 125 per hour. That's still just 1k. Not sure how much equipment is but if say 1k. Add another 1k for disposal, and I come to 3k.

EDIT: For the corners, I guess they could use a concrete chainsaw. But maybe there's a lot more work to chunk and dispose the unwanted material which I maybe underestimated.
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