Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.01.2020, 13:37
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 10
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
adamsko has become a little unpopularadamsko has become a little unpopular
Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Hi Guys,

We got broken into our rental house about a month ago while we were overseas. We got many items stollen but no damage to property.

On the day, we called police that brought detective to do the investigation. It took few hours but the process was smooth. They even called "emergency" locksmith to replace the main lock. We are in canton of Fribourg.

Next day we followed up with real state to update them about what happen and asked them to replace the other locks (same key as main) so we don't have to stay in property thief potentially have access to. As slack as they always are they didn't come back to us. Worried sick that thief can easily get in since he could copied the key (free keys were next to the door). We called lock smith and asked him to replace all the other locks linked to one key. (linked to one key because that's how it was previously)

After I followed up with insurance and claimed damages. They were very helpful and everything went well. Although, they told me they will not cover replacement of locks as it supposed to be covered by owner. They told me to follow up with real state.

I forward real state the invoice from the locksmith and they now pushing back that they'll not cover replacement of the other locks. They will only cover the main lock that was replaced when the police came. The other locks has to be covered by us because we went ahead with replacement. Really?

So we were supposed to stay in the house (thief has potentially access to) for few days and wait until our real state decide to fix the lock? Am I really supposed to pay?

---

I don't have much trust in our real estate as we had numerous issues already such us:
- replacement of our kitchen fridge toke them almost a MONTH
- we had owner coming to our property unannounced (we didn't report it)
- other small requests can take easily few weeks to get done
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users groan at adamsko for this post:
  #2  
Old 16.01.2020, 13:45
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,626
Groaned at 224 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 22,118 Times in 9,405 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Put the old locks back when you move out and inform your successor that there is a burglar who has the key but that the landlord refuses to pay for replacements.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 16.01.2020, 13:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 538
Groaned at 105 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 809 Times in 332 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post

---

I don't have much trust in our real estate as we had numerous issues already such us:
- replacement of our kitchen fridge toke them almost a MONTH
- we had owner coming to our property unannounced (we didn't report it)
- other small requests can take easily few weeks to get done
So sorry to hear, how frightening!

I don't know who is responsible from a legal standpoint. But I can attest that the above is completely normal from all properties I've rented in Switzerland. They don't want to pay for anything...and if they do, they take their sweet time to do it. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16.01.2020, 13:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Each pays for their own damage, damage to the building is thus the problem of the landlord. So if the main lock was broken it is on the landlord to repair this.

As for replacing your other locks, if you still had all the keys after the burglary there was no need to replace the other locks, and since you gave the order to do so this bill is for you.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 16.01.2020, 13:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Put the old locks back when you move out and inform your successor that there is a burglar who has the key but that the landlord refuses to pay for replacements.
What gives you the impression that any of the keys got stolen?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 16.01.2020, 13:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,110
Groaned at 309 Times in 252 Posts
Thanked 12,902 Times in 6,750 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
So sorry to hear, how frightening!

I don't know who is responsible from a legal standpoint. But I can attest that the above is completely normal from all properties I've rented in Switzerland. They don't want to pay for anything...and if they do, they take their sweet time to do it. Good luck!
We had our storage places vandalised and the landlord payed for every damage caused for each apartment - door locks etc. They made all the repairs on the same day, right after someone called them. (yes, the police too came but don't know if it's relevant)

On the other hand when we had something like fridge, dishwasher etc to be repaired or replaced....they took their time..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 16.01.2020, 14:28
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 10
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
adamsko has become a little unpopularadamsko has become a little unpopular
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
Each pays for their own damage, damage to the building is thus the problem of the landlord. So if the main lock was broken it is on the landlord to repair this.

As for replacing your other locks, if you still had all the keys after the burglary there was no need to replace the other locks, and since you gave the order to do so this bill is for you.
Just to be clear, the other locks that were replaced was from the garage and side entry to the house. It's still part of the property. It wasn't my lock. We had one key that open main door, garage and side door. So there is a difference between main door and side door?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16.01.2020, 14:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 10
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
adamsko has become a little unpopularadamsko has become a little unpopular
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
What gives you the impression that any of the keys got stolen?
Well I mean I don't know but there was nothing to stop them making the copy. The spare keys were next to the main door.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at adamsko for this post:
  #9  
Old 16.01.2020, 14:42
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Just to be clear, the other locks that were replaced was from the garage and side entry to the house. It's still part of the property. It wasn't my lock. We had one key that open main door, garage and side door. So there is a difference between main door and side door?
No, property is property wether it be a toilet seat or a window or a side-door or whatever got damaged by the burglar(s)

Since no keys are missing your landlord does not feel the need to replace all the locks and I can understand that. You however decided that they must be replaced and gave the order yourself, I can also understand this, but more from an emotional point of view than a practical point of view. Your landlord however does not have to pay for your emotions.

Our home has been fully open to all who pleased for some days due to a smashed window and by the burglars fully opened blinds and doors on the back, a truckload was missing and the whole place was a huge mess, but we still had all the keys of which some had been laying in the house, and yes we still have the same locks.

Had you or I had missing keys after this than it would have been a different story.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 16.01.2020, 14:51
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,626
Groaned at 224 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 22,118 Times in 9,405 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Well I mean I don't know but there was nothing to stop them making the copy. The spare keys were next to the main door.
Not that easy to copy a key in Switzerland.

In fact most standard issue front-door keys cannot be copied on the fly by a locksmith or key cutting service but you need to order spare keys directly from the manufacturer, for which you need to prove you actually own the property.

So i wouldn't worry about that.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 16.01.2020, 14:56
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,559
Groaned at 1,935 Times in 1,465 Posts
Thanked 33,745 Times in 16,098 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Well I mean I don't know but there was nothing to stop them making the copy. The spare keys were next to the main door.
Were they stolen?

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:01
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,668
Groaned at 87 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 17,732 Times in 7,882 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Just a simple question: Did you follow the proper, rental court accepted, procedure to get something fixed in the apartment?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:27
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 10
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
adamsko has become a little unpopularadamsko has become a little unpopular
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Thanks for the replies guys!

To be honest, it was not really an emotional decision but probably more sense that keys can always be copied even if they're checks are in place (i.e. must proof to be owner of property). I get that probably wasn't a wise decision. In the same time, waiting for numerous days for them to come and fix it didn't seem like an option.

I contacted them two times on the same day before I proceeded contacting the locksmith. My mistake is I didn't sent email so have no proof.

In fact, I didn't even check if key is missing..again didn't consider that as factor because I assumed keys can be copied.

Anyway in summary:

Based on above landlord have no obligation to replace the locks within days/weeks. Tenant is just "hoping" it's going to be done soon.

If I replace it myself I can't go to insurance and claim damages either because they'll tell me I should have waited for landlord.

Out of interest, that applies even if the key is taken?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at adamsko for this post:
  #14  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:32
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,559
Groaned at 1,935 Times in 1,465 Posts
Thanked 33,745 Times in 16,098 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
I didn't even check if key is missing..again didn't consider that as factor because I assumed keys can be copied.
How are they going to copy it without taking it?

Why copy it at all if there are spare keys available?

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:37
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,668
Groaned at 87 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 17,732 Times in 7,882 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
My mistake is I didn't sent email so have no proof.
?
e-mail You might send it initially, but e-mail is no proof.

Use registered mail, set an appropriate deadline, threaten that you will deposit part of the rent at rental court if not fixed, and/or that you will get the issues fixed yourself and claim reimbursement.

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...-schaeden.html
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the replies guys!

To be honest, it was not really an emotional decision but probably more sense that keys can always be copied even if they're checks are in place (i.e. must proof to be owner of property). I get that probably wasn't a wise decision. In the same time, waiting for numerous days for them to come and fix it didn't seem like an option.

I contacted them two times on the same day before I proceeded contacting the locksmith. My mistake is I didn't sent email so have no proof.

In fact, I didn't even check if key is missing..again didn't consider that as factor because I assumed keys can be copied.

Anyway in summary:

Based on above landlord have no obligation to replace the locks within days/weeks. Tenant is just "hoping" it's going to be done soon.

If I replace it myself I can't go to insurance and claim damages either because they'll tell me I should have waited for landlord.

Out of interest, that applies even if the key is taken?
If the keys are taken during a burglary and this appears in the police report than landlord (or an insurance) will have to replace the locks. Our landlord asked us when we returned from holiday if we still had all the keys (also since they allow access to garage/storage/building hall etc..) If missing they would have replaced all, since I had them nobody including me cared.

However there are procedures for such, you can not just call them twice on one day and than immediately just order yourself and hand them the bill.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:40
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,668
Groaned at 87 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 17,732 Times in 7,882 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Not that easy to copy a key in Switzerland
Not in Switzerland or if you have an unscrupulous friend which is also a lock smith. For some keys all you need is one or two photos to cut a copy.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:45
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 861
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,103 Times in 526 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
We called lock smith and asked him to replace all the other locks linked to one key....... The other locks has to be covered by us because we went ahead with replacement. Really?
Sadly, the landlord seems to be profiting from he rule that no change can be done to the property can be done without written approval. Thus, if you called the locksmith, you pay. There's ill-intention in the actions of the landlord, but seems to be legal.

I went to a scare like this once. One morning my wife called me to work because the kitchen faucet became a little fountain. Fortunately, all the leaking water was falling on the sink and not the floor. I tried for an hour to call the landlord to ask him if he knew a plumber to fix the issue, no results. Then I called a plumber I found on internet and by the end of the day the large leak was fixed.

Next morning I called the landlord and explained that a plumber came, replaced a faucet, etc. First thing he told me is that I had not right to a reimbursement because I contacted the plumber without his approval. To my luck, he knew and trusted the plumber and verified my story with him. In the end he agreed to pay the repair but warning once again that if repairs were explicitly ordered by him...I pay. If a window is broken, no electricity, or whatever, I should contact him and wait.

The challenge here is that when we have a problem, such as a robbery or a water leak that may flood the apartment and ruin the wooden floor, our minds are not available to think about the typical contract rules.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:53
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 10
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
adamsko has become a little unpopularadamsko has become a little unpopular
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
...our minds are not available to think about the typical contract rules.
Spot on, I agree I might have made rushed decision and maybe I should have waited for few days and figure how to block the garage and side entry door from inside....but it felt as crazy idea. I'm not expert on locks so I didn't really think about process of how copying of keys works
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16.01.2020, 15:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Robbery in Rental property: Who pays for the replacement of locks?

Quote:
View Post
Sadly, the landlord seems to be profiting from he rule that no change can be done to the property can be done without written approval. Thus, if you called the locksmith, you pay. There's ill-intention in the actions of the landlord, but seems to be legal.

I went to a scare like this once. One morning my wife called me to work because the kitchen faucet became a little fountain. Fortunately, all the leaking water was falling on the sink and not the floor. I tried for an hour to call the landlord to ask him if he knew a plumber to fix the issue, no results. Then I called a plumber I found on internet and by the end of the day the large leak was fixed.

Next morning I called the landlord and explained that a plumber came, replaced a faucet, etc. First thing he told me is that I had not right to a reimbursement because I contacted the plumber without his approval. To my luck, he knew and trusted the plumber and verified my story with him. In the end he agreed to pay the repair but warning once again that if repairs were explicitly ordered by him...I pay. If a window is broken, no electricity, or whatever, I should contact him and wait.

The challenge here is that when we have a problem, such as a robbery or a water leak that may flood the apartment and ruin the wooden floor, our minds are not available to think about the typical contract rules.
Immediate emergencies are different, I can even call in services for the neighbours if water is coming out under their door if I can't get hold of the landlord, and the bill is theirs.

As for the faucet, if you could have closed the water supply no emergency, in other cases emergency.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
damage, rental, robbery, thief




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Plumbing issues in a rental flat...who pays? Konuku Housing in general 10 09.02.2019 10:40
French Rental Property Tax bnbllck Finance/banking/taxation 5 16.08.2017 11:08
Setting up LLC in USA for rental property nkwal General off-topic 0 02.02.2016 09:27
Replacement door/locks Gunhilde Housing in general 13 21.07.2008 22:02
Dishwasher repair in rental: who pays? ejml Housing in general 4 07.01.2008 14:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0