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-   -   Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/296702-electrical-wiring-routing-concrete-house-built-70s.html)

st2lemans 12.02.2020 21:47

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3147510)
Older properties don't need them, however I suspect after this refurb it will be required if additional wiring is done.

We had to add one last year, for the kitchen. Bathrooms, no.

Tom

st2lemans 12.02.2020 21:49

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3147522)
Sound men on film sets always cut the earth on their extension leads because of hum

AKA ground lift. ;)

I also do it to Swiss plugs so that I can use them in the EU.

Tom

st2lemans 12.02.2020 21:53

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
I've been hit with 400-500V DC/AC more times than I can count working on live tube stuff, and 20-40kV on ignitions.

Does you good!

Tom

elihaf 13.02.2020 08:06

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
As I Swiss qualified Electrician I just read through this thread.

My suggestion is to follow the good advice of the people here!

Here are my comments.

The boxes on the ceilings have one feed back to the board and then distributes plugs and switches locally to the rooms nearby.

The reason why the wiring is different colouring to what we know nowadays is that over the years the Swiss changed the laws numerous times until eventually setting on the European norm around 15 years ago. In your case red black and white are live and yellow is Neutral, other colours are lamps, Earth is standard yellow green.

Your board doesnít appear to contain asbestos which is consistent with the colours of your cabling, its probably around 40 years old.

The FI does indeed stand for fault current with I corresponding to current.
Fehlerstromschutzschalter.

The regulations state that the installation needs to conform to the regulations at the time of installation, therefore as long as it is all functioning there is no duty to upgrade, therefore cotton insulation is still fairly common together with screw in fuses.

The FI does indeed save lives, i suggest you fit them for safety. This should be relatively easy as the wiring is 1.5mil already, you may need to pull through an earth wire to various lights where it is missing.

Donít run cat 6/7 with the electricity, run it separately in trunking. Alternatively check if your house has numerous telephone sockets, if yes you can attempt to run the data through those conduit.

Good luck and let me know if you need any help.

Eli

Phil_MCR 13.02.2020 09:44

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
For those interested. I got a quote for 3.3k do replace the board and install the RCDs.

of which materials came to 2'650! :O

Guest 13.02.2020 09:53

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3147762)
For those interested. I got a quote for 3.3k do replace the board and install the RCDs.

of which materials came to 2'650! :O

Total rip-off even for Switzerland.

Tom1234 13.02.2020 10:15

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3147762)
For those interested. I got a quote for 3.3k do replace the board and install the RCDs.

of which materials came to 2'650! :O

I'd like to do mine myself. I've got an electrician who can help and advise but the problem is, he's not from my kanton so I guess he can't certify it afterwards. Is that correct?

The actual work looks pretty straightforward in the grand scheme of things - it's not like wire lengths, cross-capacitance between wires, wire impedance, relections and ringing matter like they do with electronics.

Phil_MCR 13.02.2020 10:29

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3147768)
I'd like to do mine myself. I've got an electrician who can help and advise but the problem is, he's not from my kanton so I guess he can't certify it afterwards. Is that correct?

The actual work looks pretty straightforward in the grand scheme of things - it's not like wire lengths, cross-capacitance between wires, wire impedance, relections and ringing matter like they do with electronics.

but you can get it certified afterwards by the right guy. i think this is anyway <200chf.

you can come and practice by doing mine first! ;)

Phil_MCR 13.02.2020 10:56

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Total rip-off even for Switzerland.
It's a far cry from what you can get a B&Q :D

https://www.diy.com/departments/brit...1191955_BQ.prd

Tom1234 13.02.2020 11:47

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is my fuse box. It's a bit of a mess and a mixture of fuses.
The electric meter is very old school.

I also want to get the network cables and home automation stuff in a cabinet too (that's the stuff on the left).

Guest 13.02.2020 11:58

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3147792)
It's a far cry from what you can get a B&Q :D

https://www.diy.com/departments/brit...1191955_BQ.prd

LOL, yeah that is the other end of the spectrum :P

Proper brand, dedicated RCD's for sensitive stuff like dishwasher, laundry machine and such. Some spare groups and some space for further expansion. Add a mark-up for profit 500,- to 750,- depending on exact brand would be fair.

Phil_MCR 13.02.2020 12:00

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

LOL, yeah that is the other end of the spectrum :P

Proper brand, dedicated RCD's for sensitive stuff like dishwasher, laundry machine and such. Some spare groups and some space for further expansion. Add a mark-up for profit 500,- to 750,- depending on exact brand would be fair.
any recommendations/sources?

Tom1234 13.02.2020 12:04

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3147824)
any recommendations/sources?

My electrician friend, who's in charge of the electrical in a critical environment here (a hospital) reckons the ABB ones are better than the Hager ones.
He didn't go into specifics.

Jdr 13.02.2020 12:32

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3147816)
Here is my fuse box. It's a bit of a mess and a mixture of fuses.


That old wooden one most definitly has asbestos in the inside....Add another 1.5K CHF for removal & disposal.....

Guest 13.02.2020 12:34

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3147825)
My electrician friend, who's in charge of the electrical in a critical environment here (a hospital) reckons the ABB ones are better than the Hager ones.
He didn't go into specifics.

ABB is better, but is also at least 25% more expensive. For a home installation brands like Hager, Etam, AEG, Schneider or Aeton are all cheaper and all offer a quality which is beyond any doubt good enough and very reliable for home installations.

Hospitals, Industry and such don't really care for the prices. Wholesale discounts given to large installers are easily a minimum of 50% for switchboard materials. Heck even we as a small firm already got 50% on switchboard materials and for cables even up to 80% (Yes, building markets are a rip-off), so the relative price difference between ABB and other brands is very small for such companies. And ABB offers the advantage of having a huge line of products for industry which is not interesting for home-installations. Personally I find ABB a bit overkill for home installations.

As for sources, wholesale suppliers in Switzerland hardly ever sell to non-certified installers and building markets here are incredible expensive with electrical parts, so if you would want to source your own cabinet I'd say order it in Germany or the Netherlands.

The most cheap weird brands I would not touch, of some of those the plastics dry out over time due to cheap quality and if in 15 years you want to detach some wires you'd not be the first to simply see your switch break apart.

Tom1234 13.02.2020 12:50

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jdr (Post 3147838)
That old wooden one most definitly has asbestos in the inside....Add another 1.5K CHF for removal & disposal.....

I'm pretty sure it hasn't. Unless someone put some in when I wasn't looking.

Phil_MCR 13.02.2020 12:53

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elihaf (Post 3147737)
Your board doesnít appear to contain asbestos which is consistent with the colours of your cabling, its probably around 40 years old.

House was built in the early 70s, so yes, 40-50 years old. But I'm curious as to what colours of the cables has to do with asbestos? Or are you just dating it from the cable colours?

I understood asbestos was still widely used in the 70s.

Jdr 13.02.2020 13:07

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3147851)
I'm pretty sure it hasn't. Unless someone put some in when I wasn't looking.


The hardboard itself, on which the various switches & fuses are mounted, contains asbestos....
Granted, it is the least dangerous form, so as lomg as you are not drilling/breaking it, you be OK.

Guest 13.02.2020 13:17

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jdr (Post 3147838)
That old wooden one most definitly has asbestos in the inside....Add another 1.5K CHF for removal & disposal.....

- Make moistures so no fibers "float" away in the air.
- Use hand gloves and unscrew plate.
- Put together with hand gloves in plastic bag (or wrap in plastic)
- Close bag.
- Bring to local disposal site.
- Book a holiday due to saving 1.5K CHF

Phil_MCR 13.02.2020 13:27

Re: Electrical wiring - routing in a concrete house built in the 70s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3147816)
Here is my fuse box. It's a bit of a mess and a mixture of fuses.
The electric meter is very old school.

I also want to get the network cables and home automation stuff in a cabinet too (that's the stuff on the left).

God. I hate those old fuse types. They always end up blowing when you have no spares and end up having to drive somewhere to buy a new one.


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