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  #21  
Old 20.02.2020, 15:20
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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Honestly... it is worth it... and to be honest, I wish we could install it on "free will".


I own, and, I've asked around. It "might" be possible to install if I get the entire building to approve during the building owners meeting annually, and, then I sent this approval to the Kanton authorities that deal with this, then they said they approve it too if I follow some regulations that they sent me... (major bureaucracy paperwork to fill out.. etc.. but seems doable) In the end, this "pet project" seemed like was going to be in the 20K range between equipment, installation and fulfilling the bureaucracy from the Kanton. The only thing that was not clear to me is if the building has to have "all in favor" or "majority in favor"... in my building I don't think I would get all, maybe majority. But in the end, I gave up as I had other battles to fight.


...The good news (at least I hope so) is that I think I found a compromise solution for using the portable unit. I also have the windows that open to the side, or from up/down, thus, I have been using this "skirts" to cover the opening and putting the whose thru a hole.. but, I honestly don't think this works well and I can always feel the heat coming in..


I found a carpenter company that does a "fake window" with the hole, and I have ordered one. Should arrive in 6 weeks or so, and, I am hoping this will do a better job than the "skirt" to keep everything a bit better. Look at the attachment to illustrate


But I agree... I wish I could have a real "split" installed
Look for a dual hose system. (or at least have an extra blind installed in the panel for if you ever want to switch.)
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  #22  
Old 20.02.2020, 16:24
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

When I arrived the average year had something like 10-15 days above 30 and these were rarely consecutive. Iím guessing it is more like 30-40 often consecutive. Last year we had 11 consecutive tropical nights with temps above 20.

We had a unit installed in our bedroom 10 years back and turn it on a couple hours before bedtime. A timer turns it off around 0230.

Bliss
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  #23  
Old 20.02.2020, 16:53
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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Look for a dual hose system. (or at least have an extra blind installed in the panel for if you ever want to switch.)

EdwinNL, thanks for your reply. What do you mean to have an extra blind installed in the panel? and whats the advantage of the dual hose system? thanks...
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  #24  
Old 20.02.2020, 18:19
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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EdwinNL, thanks for your reply. What do you mean to have an extra blind installed in the panel? and whats the advantage of the dual hose system? thanks...
Dual hose systems suck air in from the outside through one hose, transport the heat from your air to the sucked in outside air and blow out the warm air through a 2nd hose. Meaning they don't create negative air pressure and thus avoid that your house sucks in warm air from the inside through every hole possible.

They cool more efficiently and quicker, for certain for bigger rooms like a living room they are the preferred option.

Else give it a google if you still wonder.

As for the blind, I ment if you have a single hose now and have a panel made in some workshop have them cut a 2nd hole and just put a blind cap over it, so you if in future wanted can easily switch to a dual hose system.
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Old 20.02.2020, 18:40
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

If you have a balcony, then the portable split units are best but you still need a way of getting the hose through the wall or whatever, or closing up the gap at an open window or door although it will be smaller than with an air hose.
If you're going to go to the trouble of taking a window out, you can take one out, pass the outdoor unit through, and replace the glass with a smaller unit with a gap at one side. You can even install a proper non-portable split unit in a temporary manner in this way, if you think no-one would complain.


Portable split units or dual hose units aren't so easy to get hold of, are quite expensive and the ones I've seen in Switzerland aren't of great quality. So-called easy-fit proper split units can be relatively cheap.



This topic comes up at least once every year.
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Old 21.02.2020, 07:44
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

EdwinNL: Indeed, after I lazily asked you what it was, I googled it. ;-) ... then, I went on to look for dual hose systems at fust, mediamarkt, galaxus,.. but did not see anything advertised. Any idea where else to look? or a specific model?


Landers: indeed, I know the topic shows up once a year, I've seen it in the past too, but this year is the one I decided to invest in the "fake window" to have a hose output (and now maybe a dual one as suggested by EdwinNL).


I did see some of this portable split units you mentioned, but, to be honest I am afraid that the noise outside might make my neighbors complain? Ideally I wanted something in my bedroom, but, I don't have a balcony outside. Only in the living room. But I don't think placing one in the living room would be enough to cool the whole house, and, would still have the noise issue...


I keep looking for suggestions and alternatives...
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  #27  
Old 21.02.2020, 08:42
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

We connect our aircon to the chimney in summer. This is also a viable solution (I know several people who use it). This one was €25 from Hornbach, Germany.

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  #28  
Old 21.02.2020, 10:05
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

We do something similar to the pic NAT posted - except instead of sheeting OH built a wooden frame with an opening for the cable to the condenser (it's a split unit, the condenser goes outside) that is screwed in, solidly enclosing the propped-open window. This is a bit more secure, something we have to keep in mind when a ground floor window is used.

Once installed we leave it in place for the season.

We bought the unit during the heatwave of 2003, didn't use it again for about a decade. But we have had to use it these last few years, heatwaves are getting to be the norm. Our 80s house was built to retain heat... great in the winter, as we can keep the heating use and costs down. But once summer hits the house turns into an oven. Where we live, temps often do not cool down at night; doG help us during a heatwave.

In my dream house, I am going to import sash windows.
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Old 21.02.2020, 10:57
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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EdwinNL: Indeed, after I lazily asked you what it was, I googled it. ;-) ... then, I went on to look for dual hose systems at fust, mediamarkt, galaxus,.. but did not see anything advertised. Any idea where else to look? or a specific model?


Landers: indeed, I know the topic shows up once a year, I've seen it in the past too, but this year is the one I decided to invest in the "fake window" to have a hose output (and now maybe a dual one as suggested by EdwinNL).


I did see some of this portable split units you mentioned, but, to be honest I am afraid that the noise outside might make my neighbors complain? Ideally I wanted something in my bedroom, but, I don't have a balcony outside. Only in the living room. But I don't think placing one in the living room would be enough to cool the whole house, and, would still have the noise issue...


I keep looking for suggestions and alternatives...
I admit right away that I never looked what is in stores currently, no clue why they have such lack of double systems here?

Some split units can be pretty silent (tho that comes with a price), and mobile units are not really to make the house cool, they are ment to make it some degrees cooler than outside so the heat isn't that unbearable. If you want a steady 20 degrees in the whole house in summer than a mobile unit will simply not do this.
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  #30  
Old 21.02.2020, 11:14
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

If in an apartment, or a house in close proximity to other houses, do you not have complaints about noise?
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  #31  
Old 21.02.2020, 14:26
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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EdwinNL: Indeed, after I lazily asked you what it was, I googled it. ;-) ... then, I went on to look for dual hose systems at fust, mediamarkt, galaxus,.. but did not see anything advertised. Any idea where else to look? or a specific model?


Landers: indeed, I know the topic shows up once a year, I've seen it in the past too, but this year is the one I decided to invest in the "fake window" to have a hose output (and now maybe a dual one as suggested by EdwinNL).


I did see some of this portable split units you mentioned, but, to be honest I am afraid that the noise outside might make my neighbors complain? Ideally I wanted something in my bedroom, but, I don't have a balcony outside. Only in the living room. But I don't think placing one in the living room would be enough to cool the whole house, and, would still have the noise issue...


I keep looking for suggestions and alternatives...

The only dual hose ones I've seen are Stiebel Eltron, a German brand, and they're really the brand to look for. I just had a look and it seems they still do the dual-hose one but I couldn't see the mobile split unit any more. These types are much more expensive than the more convenient monoblocks and even more expensive than proper fixed split units, at least new. You can sometimes find old units on ebay in Germany for almost no money.
Mobile split units have the compressor in the indoor unit so the only noise outside is from the fan. Mine has two speeds and I usually run it on low. To get cool air into the bedroom you'd need some kind of ducting. The advantage is you're away from the compressor unit. You could rig up a 'temporary' proper fixed unit but you'd have the compressor out on the balcony and you might need some additional sound barriers. Seems like a lot of hassle.
Single hose units basically just give you a cool air stream to sit in front of and that might be enough for you. My split unit will lower the living room temperature 10 degrees.
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  #32  
Old 21.02.2020, 14:54
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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Modern buildings with underfloor heat-pump system should be reversible for the summer and cool the floors and thus the whole apartment...
I gave this a thought since it seemed so nice, however since moisture just loves to sit down on cooler surfaces condensation will become a huge problem.
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  #33  
Old 21.02.2020, 17:55
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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I've got this kind of a first world problem I wanted to discuss. It seems like most of the newer buildings in Switzerland comes with these super nicely-looking floor to ceiling windows, Minergie certifications, etc. In my experience it works totally perfectly during the winter/spring/autumn, but both of the apartments we've lived in so far are just hell in the summer. Last year temperature in ours didn't go lower than 26C even during the night and having mechanical ventilation and a fan in every room didn't help at all.

As warmer days are apparently supposed to come even sooner this year, I wanted to ask if anyone of you found the solution to this issue. We can't use window mounted A/C units as our windows don't slide - we can only open them wide which doesn't help when it's over 30C outside. Does anyone have any experience with going through the landlord or the real estate agency to have A/C professionally installed? If so, what was the average cost? Or do you just cope with these issues with a swimming pool on your loggia or balcony?
So why dont you open the window in summer?

Anyhow its never really gets hot in the summer in the night.
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Old 21.02.2020, 20:22
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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I own, and, I've asked around. It "might" be possible to install if I get the entire building to approve during the building owners meeting annually, and, then I sent this approval to the Kanton authorities that deal with this, then they said they approve it too if I follow some regulations that they sent me... (major bureaucracy paperwork to fill out.. etc.. but seems doable) In the end, this "pet project" seemed like was going to be in the 20K range between equipment, installation and fulfilling the bureaucracy from the Kanton. The only thing that was not clear to me is if the building has to have "all in favor" or "majority in favor"... in my building I don't think I would get all, maybe majority. But in the end, I gave up as I had other battles to fight.
(
Ä2500 for a proper split system, installed, into our three upstairs bedrooms just over the border in France.

Which of us is living in a third-world country now, I ask you?!
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Old 21.02.2020, 21:50
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

just bought a heavily discounted mobile A/C unit, thought better to get it now
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Old 22.02.2020, 08:05
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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I've got this kind of a first world problem I wanted to discuss. It seems like most of the newer buildings in Switzerland comes with these super nicely-looking floor to ceiling windows, Minergie certifications, etc. In my experience it works totally perfectly during the winter/spring/autumn, but both of the apartments we've lived in so far are just hell in the summer. Last year temperature in ours didn't go lower than 26C even during the night and having mechanical ventilation and a fan in every room didn't help at all.

As warmer days are apparently supposed to come even sooner this year, I wanted to ask if anyone of you found the solution to this issue. We can't use window mounted A/C units as our windows don't slide - we can only open them wide which doesn't help when it's over 30C outside. Does anyone have any experience with going through the landlord or the real estate agency to have A/C professionally installed? If so, what was the average cost? Or do you just cope with these issues with a swimming pool on your loggia or balcony?
As they say in German " selber Schuld!". You chose to live in such an unfriendly "environment conscious" house
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  #37  
Old 22.02.2020, 12:26
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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just bought a heavily discounted mobile A/C unit, thought better to get it now
From where?
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Old 22.02.2020, 17:12
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

So... I went to FUST today and they told me that this unit should help. Portable split. He also said to wait a bit as the price should come to 2.000 instead of 2.9k. I am very tempted to buy it, although, expensive, but, if it cools enough of the apartment, that would help... the problem with this type of unit is I would need to have in my living room, and, hope that my bedroom gets a bit cooler... but its "far away".. although the entire apt. is like 120sqm. big gamble.. plus gamble with the 57dcb noise outside that i hope would not disturb the neighbors... ...first world problems...
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Old 22.02.2020, 17:21
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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So... I went to FUST today and they told me that this unit should help. Portable split. He also said to wait a bit as the price should come to 2.000 instead of 2.9k. I am very tempted to buy it, although, expensive, but, if it cools enough of the apartment, that would help... the problem with this type of unit is I would need to have in my living room, and, hope that my bedroom gets a bit cooler... but its "far away".. although the entire apt. is like 120sqm. big gamble.. plus gamble with the 57dcb noise outside that i hope would not disturb the neighbors... ...first world problems...
I bought that, and its true, it helps A LOT. It saved our sanity. But u ll probably need to buy more than one for a 120sqm i believe. I only had 60sqm.

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Old 22.02.2020, 17:28
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Re: Apartment temperatures - A/C installation

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So... I went to FUST today and they told me that this unit should help. Portable split. He also said to wait a bit as the price should come to 2.000 instead of 2.9k. I am very tempted to buy it, although, expensive, but, if it cools enough of the apartment, that would help... the problem with this type of unit is I would need to have in my living room, and, hope that my bedroom gets a bit cooler... but its "far away".. although the entire apt. is like 120sqm. big gamble.. plus gamble with the 57dcb noise outside that i hope would not disturb the neighbors... ...first world problems...
I'd deem it impossible that this unit would cool your 120sqm apartment it simply does not have the capacity for such. You'd need to have it blow 24/7 on full speed (which really gets annoying quickly) to even cool the house some, also you'd need ventilators to keep an airflow from the bedroom to your living room.

If you really want to cool your living room and your bedroom to convenient low temperatures then this is not your solution. This capacity is 15100 BTU, mine is 12.000 BTU and only brings down the living room a few degrees. And no way I can also cool other rooms with it.

I don't know what exactly are your expectations tho.
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