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  #21  
Old 26.02.2020, 00:19
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Replacing the oil heating is not going to happen quickly, particularly if it requires a permit.

What you need ASAP is a service call to get the heat working. It is possible a technician will figure out you ran out of oil.

There should be a sticker on the oil burner giving some indication of the installation date or last service. You could give this information to the property manager.
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  #22  
Old 27.02.2020, 02:41
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

I complained about the house not being livable (especially with the recent cold wave) to the landlord, and asking that they fix the heater, provide portable electric heaters, refund my rent, etc. They basically said "we're looking into it." Despite me being the one who let the oil run out originally, this still seems probably illegal for them to not provide me heat. Especially since I have replenished the oil and therefore they have plenty of options for doing so. It so happens that I still have my old apartment, where I am staying, but normally I would expect this to be considered an emergency which they would have to address immediately. I don't know the law exactly but I'm surprised they're being so lax about it. The house is now sitting unheated for 2 days and counting, which is in theory putting the pipes at risk and so on (realistically I don't think it's cold enough outside, but at least in principle...), and so one would hope that they are the ones accepting liability for doing so since I have given them every option for recourse. I'm personally kind of okay with just procrastinating, and seeing if maybe they decide to put in a better heater and refund me for something... rent... the oil I bought... whatever. This whole situation just keeps getting deeper into uncharted and weird territory, since as I say, why would they mess around with not playing by the book and leaving a tenant without heat? Do I need to say some magic word (e.g. emergency / Notfall) before they are obligated to act?

Sorry this is a bit of a rant; not necessarily looking for legal advice or anything. Like I said I'm fine for a while to just wait and see if we end up reaching a mutually satisfactory outcome, without having to start thinking too deeply about the law. Again I'm just super surprised at their inaction; seems like it would be dangerous territory for them.
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  #23  
Old 27.02.2020, 18:11
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Heating is a necessity. Send a registered letter in which you note the date when it stopped working and when you informed the landlord/ property manager.

If you made it known you have elsewhere to stay this could mean the landlord isn't very motivated.

In the meantime you would be within your rights to call a heating specialist yourself. Considering you let the oil run out this may be your best option at the moment. If that is the cause of the trouble you are going to end up paying anyways. If the specialist says that running out of oil was not the issue, you will be off the hook.

At the moment no one knows why it is not working.

You cannot withhold rent, in case this was an option you were considering.
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Old 27.02.2020, 18:35
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

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Heating is a necessity. Send a registered letter in which you note the date when it stopped working and when you informed the landlord/ property manager.

If you made it known you have elsewhere to stay this could mean the landlord isn't very motivated.

In the meantime you would be within your rights to call a heating specialist yourself. Considering you let the oil run out this may be your best option at the moment. If that is the cause of the trouble you are going to end up paying anyways. If the specialist says that running out of oil was not the issue, you will be off the hook.

At the moment no one knows why it is not working.

You cannot withhold rent, in case this was an option you were considering.
Thanks. Registered letter is something I hadn't thought of. In fact they did get back to me now and are sending a heating technician tomorrow. I don't mind paying for getting it running again, if it was from me letting the oil run out. We'll see what they say.

Re: the landlord knowing I have another place to stay-- I can't remember if they know. But I figured even then that they wouldn't want to expose themselves to the liability of leaving a tenant without heat. I'm sure the law doesn't say "landlord must provide tenants with heat, unless they have another place to crash".
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Old 27.02.2020, 18:40
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Yes, registered letter. Not mail, not voicemail, not phonecalls. Point out that no heating means the temperature in the living-room is x and in the main bedroom y (measure it) and that this is too cold to live in.

You'd do well to try with a registered letter first, asking for a commitment from your landlord that he will fix the defect by date z (four working days from your letter?), before you even consider calling out a specialist.

The general principle is that the owner/agent/landlord decides which workmen work on the property, and that they foot the bill. Even if you might end up paying (if, indeed, the fault is yours), it is still best to have those tradesmen there who are trusted by the landlord. If you call without first checking with the landlord, this almost always will mean that you yourself will have to pay the full bill (even if the fault was not yours).

Last edited by doropfiz; 27.02.2020 at 18:43. Reason: rephrasing
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Old 27.02.2020, 19:33
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Everything since the beginning should have gone through the landlord and you only do something else with explicit instructions or in the case of inaction. Seems that the landlord has done something now. Simple.


That you should be punished for letting the burner run dry is frankly ridiculous unless there explicit detailed instructions and details of how you go about it.
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Old 27.02.2020, 20:17
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

In my experience, when the heating fails a „Heizung Sanitär“ comes and installs a Hotboy notheizung which runs on electricity and is sufficent to heat up the radiators.
This is easy to arrange in a whim and given the weather the least you can expect from the landlord.

https://www.mobile-heizzentrale.ch/w...oy-neutral.png
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Old 27.02.2020, 21:35
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

'That you should be punished for letting the burner run dry is frankly ridiculous unless there explicit detailed instructions and details of how you go about it.'

ouch, yes. And yet- a cultural thing and expectations. Anyone renting a house in this country would normally be aware that checking the fuel regularly is essential and 'normal'.
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Old 27.02.2020, 21:41
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

The registered letter thing seems like more of a backup for when you have a dodgy landlord and expect to have to fight for your rights. In my case it's a property management company so while they might squeeze tenants a bit or make some mistakes, in most cases it seems as simple as just call or email and get a satisfactory answer right away. In hindsight, the reason why I've been sort of confused by their behavior and posting here is probably because I've been discussing this stuff with them over email, so responses tend to leave me second guessing, and it's easier to evade pointed questions in an email versus on the phone.

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In my experience, when the heating fails a „Heizung Sanitär“ comes and installs a Hotboy notheizung which runs on electricity and is sufficent to heat up the radiators.
This is easy to arrange in a whim and given the weather the least you can expect from the landlord.

https://www.mobile-heizzentrale.ch/w...oy-neutral.png
I've not seen one like this before but that's cool. I guess it actually hooks up to the pipes to the radiators. In the US I'd just be given one of two kinds of space heaters- one where it's just kind of like a toaster where the heating elements are exposed to the air with a grate in front of it, and another where it's integrated onto a thing that looks like a mini radiator on wheels, which maybe is either ceramic or maybe it's filled with some fluid, and so it is a bit heftier and actually has some heat retention ability.
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Old 28.02.2020, 11:19
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

As you have been without heat since Feb. 23 you clearly do not have a clue how to handle these matters.
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Old 28.02.2020, 13:42
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

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As you have been without heat since Feb. 23 you clearly do not have a clue how to handle these matters.
Well that's clear. I guess if the registered letter thing is the only way to do this type of thing in Europe/CH then I guess that's what I'll do from now on.
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  #32  
Old 28.02.2020, 18:44
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

The registered letter is the way, in Switzerland, when there is a formal, contractual issue. A non-functioning heating system is such. Whether it is like that in other European countries, I don't know.

The thing to do is write unemotionally, setting out the facts, and attaching the documents. Remember that the agent may deal with many properties, so specify yours in the title.



On DATE I noticed that the heating was not working.
I reported this to Mr X of Company Y, by mail, on DATE (please see attached copy).

On DATE I ordered nn Liters of oil from Company Oilguys, and they delivered on DATE.

The heating is still not working at all. The temperature in the living-room is nn degrees, and in the bedroom nn degrees and, as such, the house is too cold to live in.

Mr X and I have had several mails.

Kindly make arrangements to remedy this, by DATE (four working days from the date of your letter). To ensure access to the house, I can be reached on MAILADDRESS, TELEPHONE WORK, TELEPHONE HOME, MOBILE PHONE.



Am DATE bemerkte ich, dass die Heizung nicht funktionierte.
Ich habe dies Herrn X von Firma Y am DATUM per Mail gemeldet (siehe beigefügte Kopie).

Am DATUM bestellte ich nn Liter Öl bei der Firma Oilguys, die sie am DATUM lieferte.

Die Heizung funktioniert immer noch überhaupt nicht. Die Temperatur im Wohnzimmer beträgt nn Grad und im Schlafzimmer nn Grad und als solche ist das Haus zu kalt, um darin zu wohnen.

Herr X und ich wechselten mehrere Mails.

Bitte veranlassen Sie die nötige Schritte, um diesen Mangel zu beheben, bis zum DATUM. Um den Zugang zum Haus zu gewährleisten, bin ich über MAILADDRESS, TELEFONARBEIT, TELEFONHAUS, HANDY erreichbar.
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Old 28.02.2020, 19:11
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Where does the 4 working days come from? In fact I lost heat on Sunday, and now have heat again starting from today... so... roughly 4 working days as it turns out. So how does this registered letter approach, measuring temperatures, attaching documentation, and so on, benefit over the more informal approach I took? All I had to do was email, and since I was getting responses throughout the week I could see that at least some progress was being made. Albeit with some confusion or doubt as to their credibility along the way. Would have acted more quickly if I had sent such a letter? How would my outcome have been better? Or like I was saying before-- is the registered letter approach more of establishing a legal paper-trail in the event things really went south (contractually speaking). For me I definitely understand the benefit of the latter, but sometimes to me it seems fine to play the risks according to how much bandwidth I have. And then I would turn to the formal approach if they were not being responsive to the informal approach. Sure that could mean say 2 weeks without heat or something. I guess maybe the fear would be then that they would come after me for leaving the house unheated too long. But... I don't know. I guess the emails and their responses wouldn't hold up in court if it actually came to such a thing? That seems ridiculous. Their receipt of the emails is proven by the fact that I have responses from them, and that the conversation moves forward from one email to the next. It doesn't even rely on any technical argument in order to be relatively solid evidence IMO. Just seems silly to write all these kind of things by post, automatically, from the first sign of an issue.
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  #34  
Old 28.02.2020, 21:15
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Perhaps I read your situation incorrectly when I agreed with Mrs Doolittle's suggestion of a registered letter. I was reacting to the urgency in your post.

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I complained about the house not being livable (especially with the recent cold wave) to the landlord, and asking that they fix the heater, provide portable electric heaters, refund my rent, etc. They basically said "we're looking into it." Despite me being the one who let the oil run out originally, this still seems probably illegal for them to not provide me heat. Especially since I have replenished the oil and therefore they have plenty of options for doing so.

It so happens that I still have my old apartment, where I am staying, but normally I would expect this to be considered an emergency which they would have to address immediately.

I don't know the law exactly but I'm surprised they're being so lax about it.

The house is now sitting unheated for 2 days and counting, which is in theory putting the pipes at risk and so on (realistically I don't think it's cold enough outside, but at least in principle...), and so one would hope that they are the ones accepting liability for doing so since I have given them every option for recourse.

I'm personally kind of okay with just procrastinating, and seeing if maybe they decide to put in a better heater and refund me for something... rent... the oil I bought... whatever.

This whole situation just keeps getting deeper into uncharted and weird territory, since as I say, why would they mess around with not playing by the book and leaving a tenant without heat? Do I need to say some magic word (e.g. emergency / Notfall) before they are obligated to act?

Sorry this is a bit of a rant; not necessarily looking for legal advice or anything. Like I said I'm fine for a while to just wait and see if we end up reaching a mutually satisfactory outcome, without having to start thinking too deeply about the law. Again I'm just super surprised at their inaction; seems like it would be dangerous territory for them.
I took you to be asking for a way to expedite things. The way, in Switzerland, is the registered letter.

Great that you've got heating, now, after all. How did that happen?

The 4 days I suggested in the letter comes from giving the landlord formal notice of the house's being unheated (which the landlord may or may not have heard from the caretaker, and from your posts I understood you to be saying that nothing seemed to be going ahead), and giving the landlord a reasonable chance (those 4 days) to find a technician who has time to come over and fix the problem.
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Old 29.02.2020, 21:33
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

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Perhaps I read your situation incorrectly when I agreed with Mrs Doolittle's suggestion of a registered letter. I was reacting to the urgency in your post.



I took you to be asking for a way to expedite things. The way, in Switzerland, is the registered letter.

Great that you've got heating, now, after all. How did that happen?

The 4 days I suggested in the letter comes from giving the landlord formal notice of the house's being unheated (which the landlord may or may not have heard from the caretaker, and from your posts I understood you to be saying that nothing seemed to be going ahead), and giving the landlord a reasonable chance (those 4 days) to find a technician who has time to come over and fix the problem.
Appreciate the reply. In hindsight, I think this is the advice I needed-- i.e. if you want to expedite it then use a registered letter. It must be that I was just thrown off, because they were very responsive by email, so it gave me the illusion that they were doing the best they could already. But I guess sending a few emails doesn't necessarily mean that.

You asked about how it resolved: they emailed saying they would have a technician out from the company they use for maintaining the heating. This is included in the rent according to my contract. I just pay for the oil. Anyway, getting it running again was not entirely trivial - first he primed the pump, and it came to life immediately. But he had to fiddle with several things which I can't explain. Turning some physical knobs on these things above the heater with guages on them... I don't know what they are. Then looking through some of the diagnostics and stuff on the heater. Was surprised by one of the numbers (don't know what it was), he said it was probably out of whack because of it running empty, and then adjusted the setting. I asked though and it sounds like it is not in any way damaged by it running dry. They were simply talking about replacing the unit anyways. I don't know what the benefit is to them, except that the house has been empty for a while before me, so maybe they are doing the pro-active thing of investing back into the property now that they know they will have rent payments coming in for a while. I'll try to push for a new unit if they are willing, because I get the impression this heater is not the best (otherwise, why would they replace).

I'm only going to rely on the dipstick for measuring the oil level going forward, and will keep a close eye on it. Even if it doesn't damage the heater, it's not pleasant to have to wait for a technician.
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  #36  
Old 03.03.2020, 07:19
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

For those of you who have oil central heating how long does it take for tanks to be emptied, cleaned and refilled? Ours has reached the point of needing doing; we didn't fill up the tank in the autumn as usual and we're down to around 1,000 ltrs in a 3,300 tank. I've got an offer from Migrol for oil and they also do 50 francs of the cost of the tank revision if you order it before the end of March. How much does cleaning a tank cost anyway? Not sure if 50 francs off is a good deal or not? Ideally want to tie the two jobs together and oil could be delievered either this month or June, but not sure if the current fuel would last that long so wondering how many days we might be without central heating if I get them to do it this month.
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Old 03.03.2020, 10:27
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Emptying , Cleaning and refilling the tank takes a few hours. We have had ours done twice now but I cannot remember what we paid. Will check and see if I can find the price.
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Old 03.03.2020, 13:28
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Takes about 3 of hours. They suck out what is left and store it in van- suck the dregs and put in separate tank for safe disposal- poor man climbs in and clean ...Can't remember for sure, but about 1500- but our tank is huge (10000 litres).
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Old 25.03.2020, 08:59
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

Anyone got an idea of the price for this? Also have a voucher/code from Brevag for CHF100 which is a better deal than Migros, but still don't know how much it's likely to cost.
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Old 25.03.2020, 10:51
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Re: Is my oil heating tank empty? (seems like 100% yes, but I'm new to this)

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Anyone got an idea of the price for this? Also have a voucher/code from Brevag for CHF100 which is a better deal than Migros, but still don't know how much it's likely to cost.
Not at the moment, but am also crossing this bridge atm. If I get a quote or find out more will post it.
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