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Old 28.02.2020, 14:32
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Please, Advice on these two situations?

Hi All,

We are very new here, So, Please forgive us for asking many things, But, We truly need help and we would be very grateful and thankful to any advice and inputs that we could get.

Here is our situation:

- Work location is Basel area.
- We are a family of 4 (two adults & two kids 6 & 4 years).
- One income (125K CHF), and the other spouse will be home taking care of the younger kid.
- We do not speak Swiss-German nor French. But, It is definitely our priority to learn.
- We want our kids to be the public schools.
- We prefer small and quiet areas.

We did some calculations if we live in Basel or nearby it, and we think the numbers are as follows:

Net salary after taxes and deductions will be around: Maybe 8000?
2500 Rent (e.g. 3 rooms around 80 square meters)
1000 for Health insurance for 4 persons (2 Adults & 2 Kids)
1200 Food (We do not eat out)
300 Public transportation for the whole family
500 Home Expenses e.g. Internet, Electricity, Water, Heating, Mobiles

That means, We will spend monthly around 5500-6000 in Basel.

Our first question: Is this aforementioned calculation semi-accurate? Are we wrong in this calculation? Have we mised anything? Please, Help us!

But, How is the calculation will look like if we live in France nearby the border e.g. (Saint-Louis, France)?

Our second question: How much the Net salary after the Swiss taxes and deductions, then, After the French taxes and deductions? Any rough estimation please based on a single family income of (125K CHF) with 2 young kids? This is the absolute key figure!

We guessed the calculations on the French side might be as follows:
1200 Rent (e.g. 3 rooms around 80 square meters)
800 Food (We do not eat out)
500 Public transportation for the whole family
500 Home Expenses e.g. Internet, Electricity, Water, Heating, Mobiles

Our third question: That means, Based on the aforementioned calculation, We will spend monthly around 4000 in France?

Our fourth question: How much roughly will the Health insurance cost us in France?

Our fifth and final question: If (God forbid) a person who works in Basel while living in France lost his job, Which country will support the unemployment?

Once again, Please forgive us for this long post, We really need help because we are so confused and not sure about how much the net salary will be in Basel & in France? That is why, We would sincerely and greatly appreciate your inputs!

Thank you all very much
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Old 28.02.2020, 14:56
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

First start with checking Comparis, that will give you an idea.

And have a look here:

https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...e-you-ask.html
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:10
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

Thank you very much roegner for the link. I checked it, and it clarified the Swiss net salary.

Any inputs about the second question? Please!
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:23
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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Our fifth and final question: If (God forbid) a person who works in Basel while living in France lost his job, Which country will support the unemployment?
France, because that is your country of residence.

I see your point of trying to save some money. But: Have you seen the daily traffic into Basel from France? I would rather not be in that. Rather look into the bordering cantons (BL, SO, AG...) to find something affordable.

P.S> I dont think most Swiss landlords will rent an 80 sqm flat to a family of four… they probably want you to look at a bigger place.
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:31
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

Thank you Treverus for your inputs.

I estimated 2500 for the rent, based on what I seen from the ads it might get me 90 to even 100 sqm not-fancy flat.

I understand your point about the traffic and besides that there are other concerns too. Nevertheless, My wish is to find out the answer of the second question which is how much roughly the net salary will be in France?

That is the deciding factor and will determine everything, and that is why I am begging for any help to get the answer of that question.
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:34
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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I understand your point about the traffic and besides that there are other concerns too. Nevertheless, My wish is to find out the answer of the second question which is how much roughly the net salary will be in France?
Maybe ask on a French forum? You may get an answer more quickly.
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:34
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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That is the deciding factor
Looks like on this forum of expats who work in CH are none living in FR to answer your question… maybe that is already your answer ;-)
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:42
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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I dont think most Swiss landlords will rent an 80 sqm flat to a family of four… they probably want you to look at a bigger place.
Why not? That would be 3 1/2 - 4 rooms, certainly large enough!

Tom
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Old 28.02.2020, 15:44
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

Indeed. That is a strong indication

But still, I have seen many posts by many members of this forum around this topic of France with quite useful and helpful insights. The only thing that I could not find is how to calculate the net there which I believe is a major key in the topic?
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Old 28.02.2020, 16:23
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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Indeed. That is a strong indication

But still, I have seen many posts by many members of this forum around this topic of France with quite useful and helpful insights. The only thing that I could not find is how to calculate the net there which I believe is a major key in the topic?
In all honesty: No. The major key is that you dont speak French. You want to move to one country where you dont speak the language and work in another one where you dont speak the other language. Its the most complicated set up possible.

Overall is Switzerland in general and especially Basel as a city with an international work force a lot easier to deal with than that. You seem to see the tax rate as the ultimate driver… I dont. Some ideas>
- education for your kids
- health services in a language you speak
- social insurances including unemployment insurance
- banal things like dealing with utility companies, the tax office, the city hall... even if you move to the French speaking part of CH: The information is usually also available in English.

P.S> On your calculation: Why do you make such a huge difference in food shopping for the two cases. Pretty much anyone living in Basel shops in Germany or France.
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Old 28.02.2020, 16:28
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

One generally hears that taxes are lower in Switzerland and that's a major factor, but it can often be heard that if you have kids you don't pay much tax in France. Tax in Basel-Stadt is higher than in neighbouring Cantons.



Many people live in Switzerland with a Swiss job simply because it's easier. If you don't speak French you may find it very difficult in France. Basel has to be one of the easiest places to live if you don't speak the local language (although many people still struggle)

Some expats do live in France, generally in order to get a larger property.



Many people in Basel do their grocery shopping in Germany (or indeed France).


2,500 used to get you something special in Basel but these days the prices are really going up. A friend used to pay 2,300 (inc heating etc) for 110sqm.
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Old 28.02.2020, 16:36
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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P.S> On your calculation: Why do you make such a huge difference in food shopping for the two cases. Pretty much anyone living in Basel shops in Germany or France.
In both cases, OP is budgeting for public transport.

If you want to go shopping in Germany by public transport, your choices are quickly reduced. Unless you're an alcoholic, the Penny Market in Weil is not everybody's idea of pleasant shopping. Already Lörrach is a bit of a trek. Maybe such trips are still worth it for big stuff like furniture (which they deliver to your home) but less so for your daily vegs and baguette.
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Old 28.02.2020, 16:58
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

Just for starters 125K CHF are 117.5K EUR which is a relatively high salary in France, thus expect to be taxed as rich.

Then, the French tax system is quite interesting. Take a look at this page: https://www.tacotax.fr/guides/impot-...-sur-le-revenu

Double-check the numbers but it seems the final income tax for 2 adults + 2 kids and 117.5K EUR would be.....35250 EUR. Then you still have to discount social and retirement contributions.

Instead of going into the rabbit hole of tax minimization I'd make the following comparison: cross-border commute ideally means 2 hours less per day with your kids Vs potential savings (10K, 20K CHF?). Also consider that if someone pays you 125K you're not going to work only 42 hours per week.

Finally, every time I drive to Alsace I feel a bit scared. My car is normal around here while it attracts a lot of attention over there. I have no experience of living in France, never heard any bad story, just a hunch.
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Old 28.02.2020, 18:37
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

Live in Baselland. The taxes are lower as is health insurance. Public transport is excellent, so it's not really a bother.

For example, in Bubendorf (where many English speakers live), you can get
105m2 4.5 room apartment for 1780/month
140m2 5.5 room bungalow for 2100/month

If Bubendorf is too far, try some Baselland communities connected to the tram.
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Old 28.02.2020, 22:50
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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blablabla
1/ Very basic estimation. Let's say for primary/fixed needs. What about all the other costs?
2/
CH: there are many deductions available but worst case scenario (without any) it would amount to CHF 7.5Kish per month based on my high level calculation.
FR: around the same basically, EUR 7.5Kish (that's the benefit of a single income for 2+2)
3/ FR is much cheaper yes (the further from CH the cheaper) and quality is not much less than in CH, sometimes the contrary. But be aware of potential exchange rate issues...
4/ Depends on your choice, your need and your salary. You can choose between the CH way (private health insurance, fixed amount per policy) or the FR way (social security, percentage of your salary but everything is then basically free).
5/ FR

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Double-check the numbers but it seems the final income tax for 2 adults + 2 kids and 117.5K EUR would be.....35250 EUR. Then you still have to discount social and retirement contributions.
Your calculation is wrong. See above #2.
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Old 28.02.2020, 22:57
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

And yes very important point is that you can basically assume that past the CH border towards FR no one speaks ENG. If you plan to live there, I advise that you keep a little booklet around your neck with pictures of common social interactions.
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Old 29.02.2020, 07:41
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

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Hi All,

We are very new here, So, Please forgive us for asking many things, But, We truly need help and we would be very grateful and thankful to any advice and inputs that we could get.

Here is our situation:

- Work location is Basel area.
- We are a family of 4 (two adults & two kids 6 & 4 years).
- One income (125K CHF), and the other spouse will be home taking care of the younger kid.
- We do not speak Swiss-German nor French. But, It is definitely our priority to learn.
- We want our kids to be the public schools.
- We prefer small and quiet areas.

We did some calculations if we live in Basel or nearby it, and we think the numbers are as follows:

Net salary after taxes and deductions will be around: Maybe 8000?
2500 Rent (e.g. 3 rooms around 80 square meters)
1000 for Health insurance for 4 persons (2 Adults & 2 Kids)
1200 Food (We do not eat out)
300 Public transportation for the whole family
500 Home Expenses e.g. Internet, Electricity, Water, Heating, Mobiles

That means, We will spend monthly around 5500-6000 in Basel.

Our first question: Is this aforementioned calculation semi-accurate? Are we wrong in this calculation? Have we mised anything? Please, Help us!

But, How is the calculation will look like if we live in France nearby the border e.g. (Saint-Louis, France)?

Our second question: How much the Net salary after the Swiss taxes and deductions, then, After the French taxes and deductions? Any rough estimation please based on a single family income of (125K CHF) with 2 young kids? This is the absolute key figure!

We guessed the calculations on the French side might be as follows:
1200 Rent (e.g. 3 rooms around 80 square meters)
800 Food (We do not eat out)
500 Public transportation for the whole family
500 Home Expenses e.g. Internet, Electricity, Water, Heating, Mobiles

Our third question: That means, Based on the aforementioned calculation, We will spend monthly around 4000 in France?

Our fourth question: How much roughly will the Health insurance cost us in France?

Our fifth and final question: If (God forbid) a person who works in Basel while living in France lost his job, Which country will support the unemployment?

Once again, Please forgive us for this long post, We really need help because we are so confused and not sure about how much the net salary will be in Basel & in France? That is why, We would sincerely and greatly appreciate your inputs!

Thank you all very much
Yes it shows how crazily expensive life has gotten here in CH. Imagine if you were earning 70K a year and also supporting a family! And there are alot of people in this situation. Go and live in France
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Old 01.03.2020, 01:24
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Re: Please, Advice on these two situations?

Just my personal opinion. As long as you have no serious ties with France I see no reason living there. 125k in France will be highly taxed. Every day commute will drain you. Language barrier. Health and education system and the list goes on. Families survive pretty ok in Zurich with 65-70k. Better try to integrate and enjoy Switzerland.
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