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  #21  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:36
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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It was strong enough to move a very heavy trampoline which to the best of my knowledge hadn't been affected by the wind like this for all the years it had been there. How do you measure Act of God? I'm wondering what might be more beneficial for me - if it was an Act of God, would I be legally liable still?
Flying trampolines are actually quite common in Switzerland. Looks to me that either you or your insurance will have to foot the bill.
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  #22  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:38
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Considering the disposal of trash is a costly affair in Switzerland, I would think a bit about the motivations of the previous tenant. It was less expensive to give away the trash instead of cleaning.
It was only after OP moved in and the previous tenant already was gone that OP said "oh no, I changed my mind and do not want to buy it"

If I'd be a previous tenant I might have a lot of thoughts about it, but none of them would "oh no, now it is my problem again"
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  #23  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:38
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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What does the apartment owner thinks about the issue? Did he considers the trampoline: (i) trash left behind the previous tenant, (ii) your property.

In the first case, the previous tenant deposit is just there to cover the damages.

In the second case, it seems people (vineyard owner and apartment owner) assume the trampoline is yours and you need to prove them wrong. You may be right, but you need to prove it first. What does the état de lieux that you signed when arrived to the apartment says? Does it mentions the trampoline?

Considering the disposal of trash is a costly affair in Switzerland, I would think a bit about the motivations of the previous tenant. It was less expensive to give away the trash instead of cleaning. I shared a flat for some years and there was nothing that made people more furious than asking them to take all their property when leaving. People complained about my rudeness for not taking a "gift" (a chair, a plant, a bed frame, etc). I just pointed that getting rid of the trash would cost me X amount of francs, so if someone wanted to leave an object behind, should also leave some money for proper waste disposal.
The apartment owner is the son of the vineyard owner. I don't think I'm going to be getting any unbiased opinion that doesn't involve me being responsible and paying.
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  #24  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:39
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Considering the disposal of trash is a costly affair in Switzerland, I would think a bit about the motivations of the previous tenant. It was less expensive to give away the trash instead of cleaning. I shared a flat for some years and there was nothing that made people more furious than asking them to take all their property when leaving. People complained about my rudeness for not taking a "gift" (a chair, a plant, a bed frame, etc). I just pointed that getting rid of the trash would cost me X amount of francs, so if someone wanted to leave an object behind, should also leave some money for proper waste disposal.
This. It took us (actually my wife) about 2 months to properly get rid of all the stuff we had acquired but were not taking back with us. This included house plants, electrical items, garden items, etc not to mention trips to various recycling centers for the one off stuff.
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  #25  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:41
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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It was only after OP moved in and the previous tenant already was gone that OP said "oh no, I changed my mind and do not want to buy it"

If I'd be a previous tenant I might have a lot of thoughts about it, but none of them would "oh no, now it is my problem again"
I hear you, but it was only when we had a chance to inspect it did we realise the thing was totally unsafe and potentially dangerous. As in, liable to break when used.
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  #26  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:44
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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The apartment owner is the son of the vineyard owner. I don't think I'm going to be getting any unbiased opinion that doesn't involve me being responsible and paying.
Possibly they are both the same owner & that is the issue, your 3rd party insurance will not cover your own property. Case in point, mt wife backed her horse box into her parked car, the car insurance paid to fix the car for this very reason.
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Old 09.03.2020, 16:46
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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I hear you, but it was only when we had a chance to inspect it did we realise the thing was totally unsafe and potentially dangerous. As in, liable to break when used.
but in reality, you took ownership of it for free, rather than having somebody leave trash there, right?
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  #28  
Old 09.03.2020, 16:56
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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but in reality, you took ownership of it for free, rather than having somebody leave trash there, right?
The previous tenant went silent for a good few months after they left and we had no contact from them (including leaving the UPC contract in their name as they hadn't given proper notice, which was something else we had to sort out). Unsure what to do about the trampoline, and feeling that I couldn't just chuck it out as it wasn't mine, I actually paid to make the thing safe (as in, replaced the broken springs and rotted parts at no small expense) out of necessity as I couldn't stop small kids from climbing on it. So that's how we ended up with it. Assumed ownership by necessity maybe?
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  #29  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:01
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Oh keeps getting better and better.

You had no plans of tossing the thing away, you actually repaired it and intended to keep on having it...

PS: Instead or repairing you could have just flipped it upside down :P
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  #30  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:06
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Oh keeps getting better and better.

You had no plans of tossing the thing away, you actually repaired it and intended to keep on having it...

PS: Instead or repairing you could have just flipped it upside down :P
Or just take the mat off.
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  #31  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:12
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Or just take the mat off.
Next to the road with a "GRATIS" sign on it.
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  #32  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:15
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Oh keeps getting better and better.

You had no plans of tossing the thing away, you actually repaired it and intended to keep on having it...

PS: Instead or repairing you could have just flipped it upside down :P
There was no cunning, evil masterplan When we viewed the apartment, we were asked if we wanted to buy the trampoline. It was only when we moved in, did we realise it was in such bad shape it was unsafe.Meanwhile, we have small children who wouldn't get off the thing as soon as we weren't looking, so I had to make it safe. Theres no way I would have suggested buying it if I had known it was dangerous, and in retrospect it would have been cheaper / easier to just buy a new one, but thats how we ended up with it.
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  #33  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:18
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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The previous tenant went silent for a good few months after they left and we had no contact from them (including leaving the UPC contract in their name as they hadn't given proper notice, which was something else we had to sort out). Unsure what to do about the trampoline, and feeling that I couldn't just chuck it out as it wasn't mine, I actually paid to make the thing safe (as in, replaced the broken springs and rotted parts at no small expense) out of necessity as I couldn't stop small kids from climbing on it. So that's how we ended up with it. Assumed ownership by necessity maybe?
ok. then let's drop the whole 'former tenant' line and deal with the reality that it was your trampoline which did the damage.

even then, i'd imagine that it is either your fault and liability insurance pays. or it is not your fault and not your problem.
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  #34  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:25
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Are you a member of Asloca, the tenants' association? They would be best to answer.

These trampolines are a death threat and take off so easily in strong winds. It could easily fly onto a road, motorway or railway, etc- and cause massive damage and worse. My neighbour stores theirs against the house, feet out and properly secured for the winter.

Friends saw one flying over the M25 not so long ago - and that was the answer to their kids 'NO trampoline'.

Last edited by Odile; 09.03.2020 at 17:46.
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  #35  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:31
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Sorry to hijack the thread.

On the subject of trampolines my kids want one. I don't. I've got plans for that corner of the garden.
Additionally, we get on well with our neighbours.
Unanimously, they have all complained that the previous occupants were incredibly noisy and we're not.

If we get a trampoline, we'll inevitably get all the neighbourhood kids around every afternoon and at the weekend and the uncontrollable noise that comes with it.

Am I just being mean?

With all the high winds we've been having recently, the thing blowing away would be a big concern - and due to the landscape, a flying trampoline would probably end up on the road - on a car.

Of course, having seen this thread, I'll make sure we are insured.

So, if we did get one, can they really be anchored securely against wind.
Are they more trouble then they are worth?
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Old 09.03.2020, 17:35
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Sorry to hijack the thread.

On the subject of trampolines my kids want one. I don't. I've got plans for that corner of the garden.
Additionally, we get on well with our neighbours.
Unanimously, they have all complained that the previous occupants were incredibly noisy and we're not.

If we get a trampoline, we'll inevitably get all the neighbourhood kids around every afternoon and at the weekend and the uncontrollable noise that comes with it.

Am I just being mean?

With all the high winds we've been having recently, the thing blowing away would be a big concern - and due to the landscape, a flying trampoline would probably end up on the road - on a car.

Of course, having seen this thread, I'll make sure we are insured.

So, if we did get one, can they really be anchored securely against wind.
Are they more trouble then they are worth?
You can put as much sandbags on the legs as you please, so yes they can be properly secured.
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Old 09.03.2020, 17:42
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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You can put as much sandbags on the legs as you please, so yes they can be properly secured.
Have you done the maths?
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  #38  
Old 09.03.2020, 17:45
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

and off they go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeEKUr3KtGc
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Old 09.03.2020, 17:46
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Sorry to hijack the thread.

On the subject of trampolines my kids want one. I don't. I've got plans for that corner of the garden.
Additionally, we get on well with our neighbours.
Unanimously, they have all complained that the previous occupants were incredibly noisy and we're not.

If we get a trampoline, we'll inevitably get all the neighbourhood kids around every afternoon and at the weekend and the uncontrollable noise that comes with it.

Am I just being mean?

With all the high winds we've been having recently, the thing blowing away would be a big concern - and due to the landscape, a flying trampoline would probably end up on the road - on a car.

Of course, having seen this thread, I'll make sure we are insured.

So, if we did get one, can they really be anchored securely against wind.
Are they more trouble then they are worth?
I think they can be staked down. I was curious, so I did a search. And I guess you can anchor them down with U-shaped "wind stakes."
https://www.wikihow.com/Anchor-a-Trampoline

But keep in mind that trampolines can be dangerous for kids. Not to seem paranoid, but... (quote):
"Trampoline jumping poses a high risk of injury for children. The activity can result in sprains and fractures in the arms or legs — as well as potentially serious head and neck injuries. The risk of injury is so high that the American Academy of Pediatrics strongly discourages the use of trampolines at home."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...e/faq-20058001
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  #40  
Old 09.03.2020, 18:06
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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The previous tenant went silent for a good few months after they left and we had no contact from them (including leaving the UPC contract in their name as they hadn't given proper notice, which was something else we had to sort out). Unsure what to do about the trampoline, and feeling that I couldn't just chuck it out as it wasn't mine, I actually paid to make the thing safe (as in, replaced the broken springs and rotted parts at no small expense) out of necessity as I couldn't stop small kids from climbing on it. So that's how we ended up with it. Assumed ownership by necessity maybe?
The person who repaired it can tell you asked for repairs. Neighbors have seen your kids jumping on the trampoline. The apartment owner is completely aware of who's responsible for the the trampoline. There's no point in arguing you're not responsible for the trampoline. It may not be "yours", but who cares?

Perhaps you should ask yourself who's responsible for the object instead of asking who owns the object. For example: I have a car lease, I'm responsible for the car even if the bank is the true owner.
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