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  #41  
Old 09.03.2020, 18:40
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Have you done the maths?
Sand is about 1.6KG/Litre. (Dry), Let's take 35 liter bags that we fill till 25 so they are shapable and hardly leave holes making 40kg per bag, the midsize trampoline my neighbours had could have on each of the 3 legs about 6 rows of 5 bags high, making a total of 90 bags which gives 3.600KG, and knowing from experience that a handful of adults will tear the plastic apart, I'd say by the time there is enough windforce to lift it up from the 3.600KG of sand the whole thing will have torn apart leaving you with a nice metal frame with a bunch of springs.

It is not exact math and nope I have not calculated windforce, but you get the idea of the possibilities.
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  #42  
Old 09.03.2020, 18:52
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Have you done the maths?
Do the math and then double the number of sandbags.

Depending on your garden layout and whether you have any protection from the wind, it is not uncommon to have hurricane force gusts of wind in Switzerland. Due to the high winds that our trampoline sees, I chose to bury the legs in the garden to prevent it from flying away.
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  #43  
Old 09.03.2020, 20:15
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Sorry to hijack the thread.

On the subject of trampolines my kids want one. I don't. I've got plans for that corner of the garden.
so who's the boss, you or your kids?
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  #44  
Old 09.03.2020, 20:19
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Hell will freeze over before I allow a trampoline in our garden. Fortunately we have no kids of that age anymore.
Horrible, dangerous things. A&E is full of kids with trampoline related injuries.
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  #45  
Old 09.03.2020, 21:44
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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so who's the boss, you or your kids?
My wife is happy to get one. We normally agree on most things.
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  #46  
Old 09.03.2020, 22:21
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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My wife is happy to get one. We normally agree on most things.
Well, they also offer some nice possibilities for an adult couple
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  #47  
Old 10.03.2020, 03:47
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

According to S5.8.2.11.0.23b (c) of the OR, the manufacturer has 25% liability and the retailer 25% liability in such cases. Foreigners gullible enough to live here have 300% liability! lolzers!
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  #48  
Old 10.03.2020, 09:16
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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According to S5.8.2.11.0.23b (c) of the OR, the manufacturer has 25% liability and the retailer 25% liability in such cases. Foreigners gullible enough to live here have 300% liability! lolzers!
Drunk?
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  #49  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:11
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Depends on hoe strong the wind was, possibly an act of god.
In which case you need to send the bill to your local vicarage (if you pay church tax)

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  #50  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:19
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Remember Billy Connolly's film 'suing God' - great fun.
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  #51  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:19
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Sorry to hijack the thread.

On the subject of trampolines my kids want one. I don't. I've got plans for that corner of the garden.
Additionally, we get on well with our neighbours.
Unanimously, they have all complained that the previous occupants were incredibly noisy and we're not.

If we get a trampoline, we'll inevitably get all the neighbourhood kids around every afternoon and at the weekend and the uncontrollable noise that comes with it.

Am I just being mean?

With all the high winds we've been having recently, the thing blowing away would be a big concern - and due to the landscape, a flying trampoline would probably end up on the road - on a car.

Of course, having seen this thread, I'll make sure we are insured.

So, if we did get one, can they really be anchored securely against wind.
Are they more trouble then they are worth?
Use that to your advantage.

If the neigbopurhood kids get too noisy or obnoxious. Just sell the trampoline on Ricardo and and tell the kids it was the wind that blew it away
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  #52  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:30
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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The person who repaired it can tell you asked for repairs. Neighbors have seen your kids jumping on the trampoline. The apartment owner is completely aware of who's responsible for the the trampoline. There's no point in arguing you're not responsible for the trampoline. It may not be "yours", but who cares?

Perhaps you should ask yourself who's responsible for the object instead of asking who owns the object. For example: I have a car lease, I'm responsible for the car even if the bank is the true owner.
This.

And by tolerating the trampoline in your garden and even making repairs, you are effectively taking ownership of an abandoned object. If the original owner doesn't lay claim to it within a certain period, which i assume he didn't, it becomes your property. Same as if you take something out of a "gratis zum mitnehmen" box. You can't expect the previous owner to take it back if you change your mind.

Another way to look at it is that you normally get to have an inspection when you take over a rental property. You get to record and testify any defects in the property so you cannot later be held accountable for them. And this would include rubbish left behind by the previous owner.

I agreed to take on various items from the previous owner of my present appartment including lighting fixtures, a fitted carpet, and a wardrobe. They were all recorded in the protocol, and if I can't convince the person who will move in after me to take them on, they're my responsibility for getting rid of. The landlord also specifically wrote that as we cannot actually see under the carpet and don't know what state the floor underneath is in, that he's letting me off the hook if it turns out to be damaged.
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  #53  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:35
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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This.

And by tolerating the trampoline in your garden and even making repairs, you are effectively taking ownership of an abandoned object. If the original owner doesn't lay claim to it within a certain period, which i assume he didn't, it becomes your property. Same as if you take something out of a "gratis zum mitnehmen" box. You can't expect the previous owner to take it back if you change your mind.

Another way to look at it is that you normally get to have an inspection when you take over a rental property. You get to record and testify any defects in the property so you cannot later be held accountable for them. And this would include rubbish left behind by the previous owner.

I agreed to take on various items from the previous owner of my present appartment including lighting fixtures, a fitted carpet, and a wardrobe. They were all recorded in the protocol, and if I can't convince the person who will move in after me to take them on, they're my responsibility for getting rid of. The landlord also specifically wrote that as we cannot actually see under the carpet and don't know what state the floor underneath is in, he's letting me off the hook if it turns out to be damaged.

The protocol is called état de lieux. If the trash was not reported there, nothing to do.
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  #54  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:40
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

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Remember Billy Connolly's film 'suing God' - great fun.
Never saw that. But thanks for the tip.

I used to work with a guy from Algeria who told me this amusing story about a plot of land which, for some reason (which he told me, but I forgot), was owned by God. It actually said so in the land registry. The tax man had a lot of trouble working out how to address the bill, and I don't think he ever got payed.
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  #55  
Old 10.03.2020, 10:51
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Story of a fisherman in USA who loses his fishing trailer to a big storm and insurance refuses to pay as it is an Act of God. He therefore decides to sue God- in the form of its representative on this earth, the Catholic Church. Must watch it again...

The title of this thread is annoying- as it is commercial damage not garden damage, eg damage to the livelihood of a 3rd party. That trampoline coule have caused much worse damage, and even death- had it flown onto school, town, railway of MWay.
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Old 10.03.2020, 10:56
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

We used to have a trampoline with a net for the kids. The kids loved it and spent hours jumping on it until one day the wind blew it into our neighbour's house. Luckily the kids were by then at an age where they didn't miss it much and the trampoline caused minimum damage.

Moral of the story: trampolines with strong netting is a wonderful playground for kids BUT make sure they are secured against wind.
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  #57  
Old 10.03.2020, 11:06
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

We had a trampoline when we were kids, before the netting all around became the norm, it was also rectangular while most of them I see now are circular. I fell off it a few times, landed with a leg through the spings a few more times. I know doctors hate them nowadays but I don't know anybody who was seriously hurt with them (small sample size).
The one thing I've seen done with the rectangular ones is to dig them into the ground so they're level with the ground. Means that falls are at least not at a height, although drainage becomes an issue as the hole can fill with water.
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Old 10.03.2020, 11:40
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Hi all - I understand that it's fair that that the trampoline would be considered my property as I didn't arrange for it to be removed, and furthermore did my best to repair it to make it safe for kids to clamber on. In hindsight I wouldn't have done these things, but hindsight is always 2020 so hey ho.

I think the issue then might be, could I have known it could be liable to blow away? i.e. was I negligent? When I moved in, (rotten and rusted bits aside), I was expressly told (verbally, unfortunately) it was so heavy as to not be a wind hazard, and that it had been standing for years with no incident. I had nothing to do with the oringal installation so have no clue if it needed any permissions, certifications etc etc
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Old 10.03.2020, 11:58
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Maybe I missed this, and its already done, but I would first of all have a chat with somebody from your insurance company. Preferably not somebody in the call centre who is just interested in getting you off the line as soon as possible. But somebody who has a genuine interest in keeping you as a client.

Just to get a clear picture of what they will cover and what they won't.

Then you need to get an idea of how much the vineyard owner thinks he is going to charge you for damage. Are they going to go for a fair and objective assement or are they going to milk you with unfounded and fantastic claims? It would be a good idea, if you haven't already done so, to go into the vineyard and document the damage by taking photos. At this time of year there won't be much foliage or grapes so I doubt that your trampoline can have caused very serious damage. But evidence is better than assumptions.

Don't let the other side do all the evidence gathering as this makes it easier for them to frame you.

Once you have an invoice, and if you think it is unrealistic, maybe you should speak to a lawyer. Do you have legal insurance?
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Old 10.03.2020, 11:58
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Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

expressely told by whom? But surely, makes no difference- you are responsible, end of. The only discussion is whether liability insurance will pay or yourself. What does your liability contract say on matters of damage caused by lack of care on your part?

We always go in person to the Insurance office when we have a claim and talk to an advisor face to face.
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