Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10.03.2020, 12:16
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 10,509
Groaned at 162 Times in 137 Posts
Thanked 11,704 Times in 6,165 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Our "favourite" (not) neighbour puts one up in the patio every summer.
He fixes it with flagstones and when it's not in use, the net is down. It never moves (unfortunately ).
First it was loud because of him (the father) barking orders: Put on helmet, put on shoes, you have as long as the hourglass runs (that is what, a minute?), then the next one, same orders ..... his two kids soon lost interest, I'm not surprised.
It's a magnet to children so they show up (without a father who gives military orders) and get excited = loud. Can't really blame them but it being in a patio - you can follow any conversation held there whether you want to or not - makes it worse.

A trampoline is a very good exercise tool. Nasa has their astronauts use them. (I did not read linked article, just took the first I found as I did my research on this years ago).
I have a mini-trampoline. About a year ago I went a bid wild on it, lost balance and tried to step off (a very, very stupid thing to try), flew off it, hit my neck on a table, ended up bleeding and having to get stitches as the doctor claimed he can see the bone. It was not such a big deal but it could have been.
I still got it, I still use it but I'd claim a trampoline is a piece of sports equipment, not a toy. Children should have a certain age when using it.

And if it causes damage, the one who put it up/provided it for use is responsible. Not only when it flies off.
__________________
never ever make assumptions
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:08
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 46
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Humph has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe I missed this, and its already done, but I would first of all have a chat with somebody from your insurance company. Preferably not somebody in the call centre who is just interested in getting you off the line as soon as possible. But somebody who has a genuine interest in keeping you as a client.

Just to get a clear picture of what they will cover and what they won't.

Then you need to get an idea of how much the vineyard owner thinks he is going to charge you for damage. Are they going to go for a fair and objective assement or are they going to milk you with unfounded and fantastic claims? It would be a good idea, if you haven't already done so, to go into the vineyard and document the damage by taking photos. At this time of year there won't be much foliage or grapes so I doubt that your trampoline can have caused very serious damage. But evidence is better than assumptions.

Don't let the other side do all the evidence gathering as this makes it easier for them to frame you.

Once you have an invoice, and if you think it is unrealistic, maybe you should speak to a lawyer. Do you have legal insurance?
No, I don't have legal insurance unfortunately.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,294
Groaned at 153 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 4,550 Times in 1,743 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
We used to have a trampoline with a net for the kids. The kids loved it and spent hours jumping on it until one day the wind blew it into our neighbour's house. Luckily the kids were by then at an age where they didn't miss it much and the trampoline caused minimum damage.

Moral of the story: trampolines with strong netting is a wonderful playground for kids BUT make sure they are secured against wind.
Yeah just for balance to the feeling, we've had a trampoline for 5 years in the garden, no problems with it. I actually hadn't even thought of the wind possibility (its the huge 4m one) so I'll put some slabs over the base holders this time.

It does carry a level of risk, but so does playing football or rugby. Skiing carries a danger of death as does climbing. all of these I want my kids to enjoy. You have to let go a little sometimes. And they are really happy playing on the trampoline.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 46
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Humph has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
expressely told by whom? But surely, makes no difference- you are responsible, end of. The only discussion is whether liability insurance will pay or yourself. What does your liability contract say on matters of damage caused by lack of care on your part?

We always go in person to the Insurance office when we have a claim and talk to an advisor face to face.
Because - was the bad weather so unusual as to have caused an event that I couldn't have reasonably expected to happen? i.e. was it lack of care on my part or not? If it was (lack of care) my insurance might pay out. If it wasn't (lack of care), and I couldn't have reasonably expected this to happen, then am I legally liable.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:26
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,506
Groaned at 297 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 16,518 Times in 9,126 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Because - was the bad weather so unusual as to have caused an event that I couldn't have reasonably expected to happen? i.e. was it lack of care on my part or not? If it was (lack of care) my insurance might pay out. If it wasn't (lack of care), and I couldn't have reasonably expected this to happen, then am I legally liable.
So you were either negligent or it was an act of god. If it was an act of god it's unto the owner of the property to take insurance or be self insured, which appears to be the situation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:29
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 441
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 540 Times in 261 Posts
Axa has an excellent reputationAxa has an excellent reputationAxa has an excellent reputationAxa has an excellent reputation
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Because - was the bad weather so unusual as to have caused an event that I couldn't have reasonably expected to happen? i.e. was it lack of care on my part or not? If it was (lack of care) my insurance might pay out. If it wasn't (lack of care), and I couldn't have reasonably expected this to happen, then am I legally liable.
I just looked at the first trampoline user's manual I found online, it seems trampolines are known to be problematic and you should expect to have problems with wind. "Windy Conditions - It is possible for the trampoline to be blown about by a high wind. If you anticipate high winds, the frame should be secured to the ground with the use of a JumpSport Trampoline Anchor Kit. If you anticipate severe winds, the trampoline should be moved to a sheltered location or completely disassembled. Our anchor kit can be found in the Accessories section at www.jumpsport.com."

Mind the weather, you could argue that not anchoring the trampoline to the ground is lack of care.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 46
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Humph has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
So you were either negligent or it was an act of god. If it was an act of god it's unto the owner of the property to take insurance or be self insured, which appears to be the situation.
Which is what I think the situation boils down to as well. Which is why the provenance of the thing might be relevant, as this is what would determine whether I had a reasonable expectation of it not being liable to blow away under reasonable conditions. I think. Now how I go back to the vineyard owner with this, I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:33
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,506
Groaned at 297 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 16,518 Times in 9,126 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Which is what I think the situation boils down to as well. Which is why the provenance of the thing might be relevant, as this is what would determine whether I had a reasonable expectation of it not being liable to blow away under reasonable conditions. I think. Now how I go back to the vineyard owner with this, I don't know.
Don't complicate matters, you were clearly responsible, you even paid to repair it.
Tell him it was an act of god & leave it at that.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 7,175
Groaned at 415 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 8,566 Times in 4,175 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Which is what I think the situation boils down to as well. Which is why the provenance of the thing might be relevant, as this is what would determine whether I had a reasonable expectation of it not being liable to blow away under reasonable conditions. I think. Now how I go back to the vineyard owner with this, I don't know.
You don't go with this to the Vine yard owner.

It was your thing causing the damage and that makes you liable. That the wind was the direct cause of this does not matter at all.

Now if an insurance is going to take over the claim and pay up or not is your problem and not that of the Vineyard owner.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:45
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 10,509
Groaned at 162 Times in 137 Posts
Thanked 11,704 Times in 6,165 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

This is a very strange discussion.
Several storms were announced, people were told to secure their outside spaces. As there were several storms, one could learn from the first one.

It is clearly and absolutely the OP's fault. The only question here is which insurance should pay (liability in my opinion) and why does the liability insurance refuse to pay when OP has gross negligence covered?

And where is aSiTUS - our super researcher - when you need him?
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 7,175
Groaned at 415 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 8,566 Times in 4,175 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
And where is aSiTUS - our super researcher - when you need him?
He's been gone for a month, I just assumed he also left when a bunch of others did leave.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 295
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 124 Times in 84 Posts
Lausannebrit is considered knowledgeableLausannebrit is considered knowledgeableLausannebrit is considered knowledgeable
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Because - was the bad weather so unusual as to have caused an event that I couldn't have reasonably expected to happen? i.e. was it lack of care on my part or not? If it was (lack of care) my insurance might pay out. If it wasn't (lack of care), and I couldn't have reasonably expected this to happen, then am I legally liable.
I see you're in Vaud - us too. A few weeks ago there was a strong storm for which we received alerts via the "AlertSwiss" app telling us to tie down objects on balconies/patios and to be prepared for damage.

I haven't got a copy now as those messages have disappeared but insurance companies will almost certainly have access to this kind of alert system.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10.03.2020, 13:57
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 46
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Humph has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
I see you're in Vaud - us too. A few weeks ago there was a strong storm for which we received alerts via the "AlertSwiss" app telling us to tie down objects on balconies/patios and to be prepared for damage.

I haven't got a copy now as those messages have disappeared but insurance companies will almost certainly have access to this kind of alert system.
Im still new here - I didn't know about this app. I'll download it, thank you.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Humph for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 10.03.2020, 14:01
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
boinker has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
The previous tenant went silent for a good few months after they left and we had no contact from them (including leaving the UPC contract in their name as they hadn't given proper notice, which was something else we had to sort out). Unsure what to do about the trampoline, and feeling that I couldn't just chuck it out as it wasn't mine, I actually paid to make the thing safe (as in, replaced the broken springs and rotted parts at no small expense) out of necessity as I couldn't stop small kids from climbing on it. So that's how we ended up with it. Assumed ownership by necessity maybe?
Up until this info i was thinking you're unfairly being held responsible, as you didn't officially buy the trampoline, rather in the end got stuck with it. But I think the repairs, etc...would assume ownership, however, we also have a trampoline, so i completely see & appreciate your point in wanting it to be safe...I've had random kids in my yard climb my ladders, etc...it's wise to prevent yourself from being liable when possible. I think in the case of the damage to the vineyard, you shouldn't be held fully liable & hopefully you can explain the history of the trampoline/former tenant, etc...to the landlord, perhaps he's already aware of it, but as already mentioned, there's bias, so he might claim he doesn't know anything ...anyway this is all just my opinion, can't offer any official advice. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10.03.2020, 14:06
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 46
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Humph has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Up until this info i was thinking you're unfairly being held responsible, as you didn't officially buy the trampoline, rather in the end got stuck with it. But I think the repairs, etc...would assume ownership, however, we also have a trampoline, so i completely see & appreciate your point in wanting it to be safe...I've had random kids in my yard climb my ladders, etc...it's wise to prevent yourself from being liable when possible. I think in the case of the damage to the vineyard, you shouldn't be held fully liable & hopefully you can explain the history of the trampoline, former tenant, etc...perhaps the landlord is already aware of it, but as been mentioned, there's bias, so...anyway this is all just my opinion, can't offer any official advice. Good luck!
It wasn’t just random kids - I’ve got two very young ones myself and couldn’t keep them off it once they saw it, and as I felt I couldn’t dispose of it without the involvement of the owners / previous tenants, who dropped off the radar after they moved out for a few months, did what I could to replace broken bits.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Humph for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 10.03.2020, 16:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,491
Groaned at 564 Times in 432 Posts
Thanked 26,116 Times in 11,974 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

The weather warnings were in the Press, on TV, on the radio- all over the place- the population was well warned and I remember talks of garden furniture and trampolines mentionned in warnings. But the discussion abour ownership is just irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 10.03.2020, 16:22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 46
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Humph has no particular reputation at present
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
The weather warnings were in the Press, on TV, on the radio- all over the place- the population was well warned and I remember talks of garden furniture and trampolines mentionned in warnings. But the discussion abour ownership is just irrelevant.
Fair enough
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 10.03.2020, 16:40
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,483
Groaned at 218 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 21,616 Times in 9,196 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
It wasn’t just random kids - I’ve got two very young ones myself and couldn’t keep them off it once they saw it, and as I felt I couldn’t dispose of it without the involvement of the owners / previous tenants, who dropped off the radar after they moved out for a few months, did what I could to replace broken bits.
Yes, it's a damned if you and damned if you don't situation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 10.03.2020, 16:43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 295
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 124 Times in 84 Posts
Lausannebrit is considered knowledgeableLausannebrit is considered knowledgeableLausannebrit is considered knowledgeable
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Im still new here - I didn't know about this app. I'll download it, thank you.
I can't remember how I came across it but it is a useful one. I specifically remember it alerting us to the potential for things to go flying off our balcony, to the point that we actually went out and did a check and tidied away a load of the kids' toys and junk - for a few hours the balcon was actually neat and tidy and a space I'd like to spend time in

Good luck with sorting out your situation. Try not to stress about it too much.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Lausannebrit for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 10.03.2020, 16:47
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,058
Groaned at 31 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 2,321 Times in 866 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Garden damage - responsibility?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, it's a damned if you and damned if you don't situation.
Much like Switzerland!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about responsibility of furniture damage in a semi-furnished apartment Konuku Housing in general 12 16.01.2019 21:25
Material damage: employee responsibility djarzic Employment 20 18.01.2018 11:15
Pets and a Sense of Responsibility JLF Complaints corner 57 15.06.2012 20:49
Father Not wanting responsibility Lula78 Family matters/health 170 05.12.2011 17:17
Plumbing, whose responsibility? funtime Housing in general 8 07.04.2011 10:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0