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  #21  
Old 08.01.2021, 11:23
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

Does anyone know how to change the title of the entire thread to include "Initial Rent Dispute" in English? Just so its more searchable?

**Tags did the job**

Last edited by jpjpjpjp; 08.01.2021 at 12:49.
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  #22  
Old 18.01.2021, 12:00
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses?

Dear JP, many thanks for your detailed story. This absolutely helps anyone who wants to get into this processes.

I have recently decided not to apply to an apartment (which had a new price 100% over the previous tenant - who is there for 13years) just because I was unconfutable to get though a legal process...

Maybe you can help on a few questions:
- once you gain your dispute, what protection you have for the future - I have heard that one is "protected" for a 3y period, but then the landlord can kick you out...? (they can make your life hard anyway...)

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This was key for us as I was able to find out that the entire building was owned by a fund. And this fund has to publish information regarding revenues on all the buildings owned by the fund. Thru that documentation, we came to find out that the average rent in the building for all 10 3 room apartments was around 1'600 CHF. One of older tenants had also shared with us the amount she pays per month when we first moved in which was lower than 1'600 CHF.
- where / how did you get the above info? Did you request it (either from the landlord or from )? or your searched yourself somewhere?

Many Thanks again for your testimony.
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  #23  
Old 18.01.2021, 12:39
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

Thanks so much for posting this information. I left Zurich 5 years ago and returned last summer and am shocked at how sharply rent prices have risen. Which district did you land in, and do you think that you will be able to stay in the apartment long-term? (hopefully the landlord was not too aggravated!)
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  #24  
Old 19.01.2021, 16:56
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

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Thanks so much for posting this information. I left Zurich 5 years ago and returned last summer and am shocked at how sharply rent prices have risen. Which district did you land in, and do you think that you will be able to stay in the apartment long-term? (hopefully the landlord was not too aggravated!)
District 8

The management company I imagine is not happy. I may not be the best person to answer this but my understanding is that they can't kick you out of an apartment with just cause.

My rental agreement did not have a time period stated so they could potentially only move us if they could show need for the apartment themselves. I think that only happens when the apartment is owned by an individual and they want to use the house themselves. Others with more experience might chime in on if there is any other way they could potentially legally remove someone if the rental contract doesn't have a defined period.

Last edited by jpjpjpjp; 19.01.2021 at 16:56. Reason: Kreis
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  #25  
Old 19.01.2021, 17:09
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

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District 8

The management company I imagine is not happy. I may not be the best person to answer this but my understanding is that they can't kick you out of an apartment with just cause.

My rental agreement did not have a time period stated so they could potentially only move us if they could show need for the apartment themselves. I think that only happens when the apartment is owned by an individual and they want to use the house themselves. Others with more experience might chime in on if there is any other way they could potentially legally remove someone if the rental contract doesn't have a defined period.
Nope, they can cancel the rental agreement. You can fight that though.

https://ratgeber.immowelt.ch/a/kuend...n-koennen.html
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Old 19.01.2021, 17:18
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses?

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Dear JP, many thanks for your detailed story. This absolutely helps anyone who wants to get into this processes.

I have recently decided not to apply to an apartment (which had a new price 100% over the previous tenant - who is there for 13years) just because I was unconfutable to get though a legal process...

Maybe you can help on a few questions:
- once you gain your dispute, what protection you have for the future - I have heard that one is "protected" for a 3y period, but then the landlord can kick you out...? (they can make your life hard anyway...)



- where / how did you get the above info? Did you request it (either from the landlord or from )? or your searched yourself somewhere?

Many Thanks again for your testimony.
I found that info with a google search. Was hoping that Zurich had public official records of rental agreements. Those don't exist but I stumbled on the annual report for the fund which happened to have all the information I needed.

In Zurich, I think a lot of the properties are owned by these sort of investment vehicles and the public ones would have a legal requirement to release these sort of annual reports. If you are dealing with a small landlard or a private fund, this info might not be obtainable.

With that said, my understand is that you can request this information from the landlord after filing your complaint. The state website I linked in my post does a pretty good job at explaining the different ways you can argue the initial rent. Its broken down between claiming the landlord is making an "unjust" return from their investment or that the rent is outside what is customary for the district. For buildings newer than 30 years, this unjust net return calculation takes precedence over the customary amount for the district. For buildings older than 30 years, its reversed and the customary amount for the district takes precedence since those old buildings purchase price would be to low and translate to a very low rental rate. If the landlord is using the customary amount of the district as the justification for the increase, he will need to provide 5 properties that share your apartments characteristics(size, location, floor, finishings etc) which is nearly impossible.

To calculate the "unjust" return, you would request the information from the landlord(purchase price, mortgage, expenses etc) and compare it against the rent charged. Unfortunately, a new ruling in October of this year has bumped this unjust return threshold up from .5% above the reference interest rate to 2% above the reference. My understanding is that the landlord would have to give this information but some case law I read hinted to the fact that landlords aren't always corporative.

None of this came into play in my case because we didn't go to court, but I read as much as possible to prepare for that eventuality. I thought if we had gone to court we would have had a good chance at getting the rent lowered. But legal processes in Zurich can be expensive and the loser pays court fees and the other parties legal fees. I recommend getting legal insurance which would cover all of this and as I mentioned in my initial post, get it before you even start your house hunt.
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Old 19.01.2021, 17:30
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

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Nope, they can cancel the rental agreement. You can fight that though.

https://ratgeber.immowelt.ch/a/kuend...n-koennen.html
Really interested in hearing from anyone on the forums that has had this happen to them. There only justification for potentially kicking me out would be to charge someone else more rent, which I would undoubtedly contest in court.

With that said, I'm hoping that since we came to an agreement which is above the average rent of the apartments in the building, they will be happy with a tenant that just pays on time
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  #28  
Old 19.01.2021, 17:33
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

It happened to a neighbour who constantly disregarded the house rules.
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Old 19.01.2021, 17:34
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Re: Mitteilung des Anfangsmietzinses? [Initial Rent Dispute]

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It happened to a neighbour who constantly disregarded the house rules.
It's Switzerland, they will get the neighbours to complain about something if you get awkward.
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