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-   -   Permanently parked Caravan blocking view (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/297550-permanently-parked-caravan-blocking-view.html)

EPMike 06.04.2020 12:45

Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Hi All

First world problem i know. Nevertheless: We bought a piece of land with a narrow view on the mountains and planned our house to have views from our dining room between the two houses on the opposite side of a narrow street. The regulations stipulate that nothing can be built in the area between the houses (5m on each side of the border.) To our disappointment, one of the neighbours decided (couple of months ago) to park a bug, 3m high caravan besides his house, blocking our view. The caravan is parked clearly in the no-build zone, both from the street (kleiner Grundabstand, Grenzbabstand, etc.).

The question is, is this allowable. I mean if it is parked there 99% of the time, than it is almost as if a fixed construction.

Any advise is welcome, best,

roegner 06.04.2020 12:49

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Get a couple of mates and move it?

Guest 06.04.2020 12:56

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
You really need advice from someone who knows local rules - as you know, they change from Gemeinde to Gemeinde. Our meadows are not constructible- but be have been told we could keep caravans or even static caravans, as long as there are no foundations and showers WCs in the main house.

Guest 06.04.2020 12:57

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Nothing wrong with parking a caravan on your own ground, and no rule to prohibit such (unless right next to the street in town and such). It is only to be made equal to a fixed structure if the usage reveals such (like having 50 chicken in it with a ren connected to it or renting it out through airBNB etc..)

Have you already spoken with your neighbour? And does he even have another spot to park it.

Guest 06.04.2020 12:58

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMike (Post 3168029)
Hi All

First world problem i know. Nevertheless: We bought a piece of land with a narrow view on the mountains and planned our house to have views from our dining room between the two houses on the opposite side of a narrow street. The regulations stipulate that nothing can be built in the area between the houses (5m on each side of the border.) To our disappointment, one of the neighbours decided (couple of months ago) to park a bug, 3m high caravan besides his house, blocking our view. The caravan is parked clearly in the no-build zone, both from the street (kleiner Grundabstand, Grenzbabstand, etc.).

The question is, is this allowable. I mean if it is parked there 99% of the time, than it is almost as if a fixed construction.

Any advise is welcome, best,


Who owns the land where the caravan is parked? Is there anywhere else the caravan could be parked or is that the only spot? Always best to negotiate with the neighbours before escalating. I would start by a friendly chat and then, if no joy, follow up with a really polite friendly letter. Still no joy then take it up with the authorities to see if they can legally park there or not.

Guest 06.04.2020 13:02

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
We lived in the cul-de-sac for a few years in the UK, and the Deeds specified very clearly that Caravans could not be parked on the drive of any of the houses- one neighbour did and it created big tensions (not with us- we were not affected). But yes- talk to them and see. If they have to park it elsewhere, and it is very difficult to find a covered place to rent btw- it will cost them 100-200 + per month.

Guest 06.04.2020 13:04

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3168030)
Get a couple of mates and move it?

We zijn hier toch niet in Nederland :D

jazh 06.04.2020 13:05

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
As already mentioned, in situations like this you'll have to speak with a local lawyer in order to really know what your rights and options are, but here is some (uninformed) input.
1. I think that as another user said, for structures that are moveable, one does not need a construction permit. If it is prohibited for your neighbors to leave the caravan there, it won't be because it was put there without a construction permit. It'll be because it violates something else.
2. I believe that each property has a limit to the number of parking spaces that are allowed. Perhaps this parked caravan violates the number of parking spaces.
3. I believe that there is some right to a view in Switzerland.

Give us an update when you know more and good luck solving the problem.

curley 06.04.2020 13:10

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

We lived in the cul-de-sac for a few years in the UK, and the Deeds specified very clearly that Caravans could not be parked on the drive of any of the houses- one neighbour did and it created big tensions (not with us- we were not affected). But yes- talk to them and see. If they have to park it elsewhere, and it is very difficult to find a covered place to rent btw- it will cost them 100-200 + per month.
And how does this help OP in Switzerland?

Guest 06.04.2020 13:15

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
The point is that local by-laws or even Rules for specific developments, may stipulate that caravans can or can't be stored there- in CH or UK.

This especially for new 'estates' or rows of houses built by developer and sold 'key in hand'

Does anyone who has purchased a 'read made' house on an estate know if such rules are part of the purchase/deeds in CH?

V__ 06.04.2020 13:30

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Get the Commune regulations (Reglement de la Commune, in French) where all the rules are written regarding construction, usage, noise, parks, parking, working from home etc etc

I would bet there is something prohibiting parking of campers in that area. I have read through 2 regulations and indeed campers were always forbidden

Normally residential areas have such rules if the regulations were updated or created from 1970s and onward

EPMike 06.04.2020 14:31

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Nothing wrong with parking a caravan on your own ground, and no rule to prohibit such (unless right next to the street in town and such). It is only to be made equal to a fixed structure if the usage reveals such (like having 50 chicken in it with a ren connected to it or renting it out through airBNB etc..)


Have you already spoken with your neighbour? And does he even have another spot to park it.
Actually it can. See below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazh (Post 3168045)
As already mentioned, in situations like this you'll have to speak with a local lawyer in order to really know what your rights and options are, but here is some (uninformed) input.
1. I think that as another user said, for structures that are moveable, one does not need a construction permit. If it is prohibited for your neighbors to leave the caravan there, it won't be because it was put there without a construction permit. It'll be because it violates something else.
2. I believe that each property has a limit to the number of parking spaces that are allowed. Perhaps this parked caravan violates the number of parking spaces.
3. I believe that there is some right to a view in Switzerland.

Give us an update when you know more and good luck solving the problem.

What I found so far is for Cantons AG and SG:
Quote:

"Bewilligungspflichtig sind gemäss Art. 78 Baugesetz insbesondere...Langfristiges Aufstellen von Wohnwagen ausserhalb bewilligter Camping- und Zeltplätze"


And for AG:
Quote:

Bauten und Anlagen im Sinne des Baugesetzes sind: ... Wohnwagen, die länger als 2 Monate auf dem gleichen Grundstück abgestellt werden
Unfortunately, I could not find anything for Canton Zürich.

And yes, obviously I will speak to the neighbour, but one needs to be informed, otherwise you just make a fool out of yourself.

bowlie 06.04.2020 15:10

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Talk to your commune as well. Before spending money on a lawyer.

RTN 06.04.2020 15:52

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Not going to help your situation but funny story none the less from the only in Australia files......

An Uncle of mine wanted to put a steel framed transportable house on a block of land he owned, off to the council, 1 year later house arrives and no progress with the council. Proceeded to place house on block, within 24hrs gets a letter to remove it (who knew council's could work so fast!) so welds a stub axle and fits a wheel on each corner, towbar on the end and hey presto, it's a caravan! After a bit more back and forwards it was approved and still has the wheels on it 30yrs later!

Snoopy 06.04.2020 20:00

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
We had a neighbour who parked their caravan on the grass next to our lot and reported it to the Gemeine. They had it removed as it required a building permit. On a permanent and approved parking space,that may not apply.
just contact your building dept at the Gemeinde and ask them...then you’ll know.

EPMike 06.04.2020 22:14

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy (Post 3168234)
We had a neighbour who parked their caravan on the grass next to our lot and reported it to the Gemeine. They had it removed as it required a building permit. On a permanent and approved parking space,that may not apply.
just contact your building dept at the Gemeinde and ask them...then you’ll know.

Thanks I will ask. I wanted as much info as possible. I fear some people assume too much good faith in the neutrality of the Gemeinde - my experience is they have a tendency to avoid conflict - which might even mean they give wrong (incomplete) information.

Murloc 06.04.2020 23:45

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMike (Post 3168297)
Thanks I will ask. I wanted as much info as possible. I fear some people assume too much good faith in the neutrality of the Gemeinde - my experience is they have a tendency to avoid conflict - which might even mean they give wrong (incomplete) information.

also there can be abuse in these matters if the person is in with the gemeinde mafia. I witness such (actually much worse than OP's) parking abuse in a certain municipality every time I drive through, FDP brand as usual.

doropfiz 07.04.2020 01:09

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMike (Post 3168297)
Thanks I will ask. I wanted as much info as possible. I fear some people assume too much good faith in the neutrality of the Gemeinde - my experience is they have a tendency to avoid conflict - which might even mean they give wrong (incomplete) information.

Might you perhaps find the municipal rules online, to peruse at leisure?

EPMike 07.04.2020 09:52

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3168343)
Might you perhaps find the municipal rules online, to peruse at leisure?

Yes, but nothing specific as in AG and SG with respect to Caravans.

Snoopy 07.04.2020 11:27

Re: Permanently parked Caravan blocking view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMike (Post 3168297)
Thanks I will ask. I wanted as much info as possible. I fear some people assume too much good faith in the neutrality of the Gemeinde - my experience is they have a tendency to avoid conflict - which might even mean they give wrong (incomplete) information.

I hear where you are coming from, except....that works as long as someone is not creating trouble. As soon as someone starts stoking the fire, it becomes more difficult to obfuscate. Sometimes things are tolerated, even though they are not strictly allowed and Gemeinde will often let it pass because well, why rock the boat? But, if someone complains, they have to act (been there, seen it, done it).

So, ask the Bauverwaltung at your Gemeinde very innocently. Just ask them if such a thing requires a building permit. Unless the caravan is on a permanent and approved parking space, it would need one if it is there for longer than 2-3 months.


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