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Old 26.05.2020, 19:41
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Nebenkosten melting my head

Hi Folks,

I had reason to review my Nebenkosten summary for 2019 (The old UPC connection chestnut ) & in doing so I started to verify some calculations that I had previously accepted as accurate. The numbers are reviewed & signed off by 2 of our generous neighbours.

Anyway the calculation I can't get my head around are these:

Components:
-Strom for my block of 4 units.
-Lift Haus for my block of 4 units.
-Versicherung Haus for my block of 4 units.
-Unterhalt, Reparaturen for my block of 4 units.
-Erneuerungsfonds for my block of 4 units.

Total: CHF 13,305.35
Verteil: 100%
Anteil total: 528.000
Ihr Anteil: 134.000
Faktor: 1
Bertrag: CHF3,376.75

My calculation 1: (((13305.35 *0.528)*0.134)*1) = CHF 941.38
My calculation 2: ((13305.35 *0.134)*1) = CHF 1,782.87
My calculation 3: 13305.35 / 4 objekts = CHF 3326.33

The 3 above calculations are my attempts to arrive at the charged Bertrag of CHF3,376.75.

Have I got rocks in my head or what??
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Old 26.05.2020, 20:04
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

Are all the units the same size? Sometimes the distribution is in proportion to the square meterage of the liveable (or of the entire) space per unit.

Does the same number of people live in each unit? Sometimes (though rarely, I think), the number of occupants is also factored in or each person has a kind of "head tax", although I have not heard of this system's being used in recent years.
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Old 26.05.2020, 20:20
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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Hi Folks,

I had reason to review my Nebenkosten summary for 2019 (The old UPC connection chestnut ) & in doing so I started to verify some calculations that I had previously accepted as accurate. The numbers are reviewed & signed off by 2 of our generous neighbours.

Anyway the calculation I can't get my head around are these:

Components:
-Strom for my block of 4 units.
-Lift Haus for my block of 4 units.
-Versicherung Haus for my block of 4 units.
-Unterhalt, Reparaturen for my block of 4 units.
-Erneuerungsfonds for my block of 4 units.

Total: CHF 13,305.35
Verteil: 100%
Anteil total: 528.000
Ihr Anteil: 134.000
Faktor: 1
Bertrag: CHF3,376.75

My calculation 1: (((13305.35 *0.528)*0.134)*1) = CHF 941.38
My calculation 2: ((13305.35 *0.134)*1) = CHF 1,782.87
My calculation 3: 13305.35 / 4 objekts = CHF 3326.33

The 3 above calculations are my attempts to arrive at the charged Bertrag of CHF3,376.75.

Have I got rocks in my head or what??

Very simple: total is 528, you share is 134.
So 134/528 * 13305.35 = 3376.75
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Old 26.05.2020, 20:28
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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I don't know whether this helps, but your answer to calculation 3 is almost exactly Fr. 50 (and a few Rappen) less than the total that they're charging you.

Can you attribute that Fr. 50 (or Fr. 200 if all 4 parties are paying it) to something else, specific, such as a registration fee, a portion of the auditor's fee, a connection fee to the municipality for the supply of water or electricity, bank charges, etc., etc.?
Thanks for taking the time to look at this Doropfiz. I see we have the answer above & that answer is yes I do indeed have rocks in my head.
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Old 26.05.2020, 20:28
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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Very simple: total is 528, you share is 134.
So 134/528 * 13305.35 = 3376.75
Very simple indeed, just like me. Thank you.

My mistake was that I assumed the 528.000 & the 314.000 factors were both over 1000.000.
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Old 26.05.2020, 22:27
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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now i feel a bit like in primary school when i got the wrong number of potatoes that the farmer didn't sell at the market, etc.
42
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Old 14.10.2020, 23:03
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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Are all the units the same size? Sometimes the distribution is in proportion to the square meterage of the liveable (or of the entire) space per unit.

Does the same number of people live in each unit? Sometimes (though rarely, I think), the number of occupants is also factored in or each person has a kind of "head tax", although I have not heard of this system's being used in recent years.
Hello bouncing on this Head tax.
In my blocks of flats (we have 54 flats), the NK are calculated either as 1/54 (say for the cable costs) or per sqm.

However, some flats are over occupied (like 8 people in a 5.5room) while we are 4 in a 4.5.

Is there a way to make the estate agent consider the head tax calculation?
It feels a bit unfair to pay for the others.
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Old 15.10.2020, 00:04
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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Hello bouncing on this Head tax.
In my blocks of flats (we have 54 flats), the NK are calculated either as 1/54 (say for the cable costs) or per sqm.

However, some flats are over occupied (like 8 people in a 5.5room) while we are 4 in a 4.5.

Is there a way to make the estate agent consider the head tax calculation?
It feels a bit unfair to pay for the others.
Why is 8 people in a 5.5 room flat over occupied? That's two people per bedroom plus a free 1.5 rooms for sharing.
And the cable costs are not higher, when more people watch. They are per flat.
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Old 15.10.2020, 08:01
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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Why is 8 people in a 5.5 room flat over occupied? That's two people per bedroom plus a free 1.5 rooms for sharing.
If you believe the EF experts, the authorities don't like to have that many people crammed in one place. When applying for permits, apparently the general rule (don't ask me where it's from) is number of people minus 0.5 to 1 = number of rooms needed. For example 2 people can live in a 1.5 room flat.

Don't shoot the messenger. I read it on EF so it must be true.
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Old 15.10.2020, 09:49
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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If you believe the EF experts, the authorities don't like to have that many people crammed in one place. When applying for permits, apparently the general rule (don't ask me where it's from) is number of people minus 0.5 to 1 = number of rooms needed. For example 2 people can live in a 1.5 room flat.

Don't shoot the messenger. I read it on EF so it must be true.
I tried following up this rule of thumb which is out there. Apparently it is not a fixed rule - a landlord can specify how many tenants he wants but everyone has the right for the partner/family? to come and live with them. Generally there is a social pressure against having flats under-occupied, rather than problems of over-occupation. I have never known the "Nebenkosten" to be calculated on anything other than the number of flats or relative floor area -imagine the chaos trying to keep track of the number of people for how long each year.
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:18
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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I tried following up this rule of thumb which is out there. Apparently it is not a fixed rule - a landlord can specify how many tenants he wants but everyone has the right for the partner/family? to come and live with them. Generally there is a social pressure against having flats under-occupied, rather than problems of over-occupation. I have never known the "Nebenkosten" to be calculated on anything other than the number of flats or relative floor area -imagine the chaos trying to keep track of the number of people for how long each year.
We have a mix of m2, units, and nr. of people in an attempt to make it fir to everyone. For example: 8 people shower more than 2 irrespective of the m2.

It only takes some effort the first time to set up and then adjust one a year, maybe a cell or two if people move in.

You never get it 100% right, but solely by m2 can become quite unfair.
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Old 16.10.2020, 11:26
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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If you believe the EF experts, the authorities don't like to have that many people crammed in one place. When applying for permits, apparently the general rule (don't ask me where it's from) is number of people minus 0.5 to 1 = number of rooms needed. For example 2 people can live in a 1.5 room flat.

Don't shoot the messenger. I read it on EF so it must be true.
That rule is correct but the bigger the place the looser it gets. So two kids in each bedroom while there is still the living room is different than for example 3-4 people in a 1.5 room flat (which in Switzerland means 1.5 rooms, not 1.5 bedrooms plus living room).
You agree?
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Old 16.10.2020, 16:40
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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That rule is correct but the bigger the place the looser it gets. So two kids in each bedroom while there is still the living room is different than for example 3-4 people in a 1.5 room flat (which in Switzerland means 1.5 rooms, not 1.5 bedrooms plus living room).
You agree?
Sure, but I had the impression from the post that it's not two adults and six children in the flat. More like several adults trying to save money. But I could have misinterpreted the undertone.
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Old 19.10.2020, 10:07
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Re: Nebenkosten melting my head

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Sure, but I had the impression from the post that it's not two adults and six children in the flat. More like several adults trying to save money. But I could have misinterpreted the undertone.
Yes
It is 2x2 adults and 4 kids.
Same family (grand parents live in).
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