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  #21  
Old 30.06.2020, 14:19
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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Yes(
You have no idea whether the agent is telling the truth or not.
It is not uncommon for house owners to set minimum rental terms of several years.

So quit talking out of your behind. It is not helpful to the OP.
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  #22  
Old 30.06.2020, 14:24
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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3 year is usual for commercial properties, or for hard to rent residential ones. For me it is a sign that the property has been vacant for a while and the owner wants to secure income for 3 years.

It would only make sense if the 3 year contract offers a discount over the average prices around, 10 % less? A lower price that properties around indeed helps to sublet, otherwise NO.
I disagree. Generally, houses are being let by private owners whereas apartments are, more often than not, being let by companies. House owners don't want to have the hassle of going through the whole rigamarole of tenant changes every 12 months. And that is understandable. Companies don't care, they have their letting agents and let them do all the work.

I disagree that it means that a property is hard to rent. I understand why someone may not want to commit to that length of time, but as there are clearly enough people who will, it is not really an issue.
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  #23  
Old 30.06.2020, 15:15
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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You have no idea whether the agent is telling the truth or not.
It is not uncommon for house owners to set minimum rental terms of several years.
Yes we do know if she tells the truth and, no it is not the truth.

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H
She answered telling me that this is the standard lease term for Switzerland, and that I always have the possibility of subletting (via her!) lucky me...
The statement was about Switzerland in general not about the particular lease. That is wrong.
Also a sublet would be through the tenant and the tenant only and would be the tenant own responsibility, so wrong again.
The topic of replacement tenant has not even been addressed.
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  #24  
Old 30.06.2020, 15:40
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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If you can find people to take over the lease, you should be ok, so the main question then becomes "is it a marketable property?"
It's still a big risk to take on. I've seen quite a few people that wanted to get out of tenancies and find that what they thought was a good property and rent was hard to get a subletter for. And that the regie/landlord would do anything in its power to make them stick to paying even the last cent, and be of little help, even counterproductive to finding a new subletter.

Especially at the higher end of the market (which one would presume a house in Geneva area is) this is quite a big risk to take for 3 years.

The point however is that the estate agent lied - 3 years is not "standard", it's specific to this contract. He/she could have easily explained the reasons behind it and be frank about it - but chose instead to just pull a fast one on the OP.
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Old 30.06.2020, 15:49
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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It's still a big risk to take on. I've seen quite a few people that wanted to get out of tenancies and find that what they thought was a good property and rent was hard to get a subletter for. And that the regie/landlord would do anything in its power to make them stick to paying even the last cent, and be of little help, even counterproductive to finding a new subletter..
Subletter and replacement tenant are two distinctly different concepts with different liabilities, rights, and obligations. Please to not mix them up or equate them as them same.
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  #26  
Old 30.06.2020, 15:57
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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.....You could up the info on here to see if you're being ripped off, more than one EF member lives in Geneva.
You can not be ripped off before you're in a deal.

There is an offer. You take it or leave it. You can try to haggle but have to accept if the other one is not interested. End of story, look for a deal you like.

A landlord can do what they want with their properties - they can even leave them empty. Sounds like that is the best and most trouble free solution

edit: I never had a minimum time clause.
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  #27  
Old 30.06.2020, 16:31
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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Subletter and replacement tenant are two distinctly different concepts with different liabilities, rights, and obligations. Please to not mix them up or equate them as them same.
Yes, you are right. I meant to say "replacement tenant", which would be the preferred way to get out of the contract before due date.

What I want to say was that finding a replacement tenant is no easy feat, even in a hot property market like Geneva. I know of someone that wanted to move out a few months before end of contract because they were finally buying a house, and the agency knowing that dragged their feet for the outstanding months forcing them to pay the rent even if replacement tenants were found - just by pure delay tactics

Anyway, it's funny that the estate agent proposed subletting instead of replacement tenant (if we understand things correctly) - that's just another tactic to avoid responsibility and pass the buck to the tenant
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  #28  
Old 30.06.2020, 16:33
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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You can not be ripped off before you're in a deal.
But you can be lied to so that you get into a rip-off deal, right?
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  #29  
Old 30.06.2020, 16:41
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/poli...ngfristig.html

This is the position of the tenants' association. In short, 3 years are maybe not common but certainly legal. Options like replacement tenants exist.
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  #30  
Old 30.06.2020, 19:08
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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You can not be ripped off before you're in a deal.
Well done, Tüpflischiisser. (nitpicker?)
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  #31  
Old 01.07.2020, 09:26
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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But you can be lied to so that you get into a rip-off deal, right?
Yes, but only if you don't do your part in the deal, like checking statements, which the OP obviously knows and does (as most reasonable people). General claims/reasoning for deals like "it's standard here", "it's the law" etc. you never take from the "seller", you check it out yourself. In addition the result (correct/lie) gives you information about the "seller".

Still, you've not been ripped off before you entered the deal The counterpart tried to trick you - you noticed. Too bad for the counterpart.

In this particular case, the owner practises his right to set a minimum rental-time but doesn't stand for it, yet "blames" it on a nonexisting rule. OP checked and now - imo - has good reason not to deal with this person.

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Well done, Tüpflischiisser. (nitpicker?)
So stating nonsense is cool, correcting nonsense is nitpicking?

Thanks, that was an interesting statement.
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  #32  
Old 01.07.2020, 10:17
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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So stating nonsense is cool, correcting nonsense is nitpicking?

Thanks, that was an interesting statement.
Your post above demonstrates that it was perfectly clear what I meant. That makes you a Tüpflischiisser.
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  #33  
Old 01.07.2020, 13:20
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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Still, you've not been ripped off before you entered the deal The counterpart tried to trick you - you noticed. Too bad for the counterpart.
It's not that simple.

By lying to the tenant and providing false information with a view to entering a contract the estate agent may be commiting a fraud. The Code of Obligations says that "A party induced to enter into a contract by the fraud of the other party is not bound by it even if his error is not fundamental." - with sufficient proof the tenant may annul the contract or receive compensation for such missrepresentation

Have a read here for a more detailed analysis

The fact that this kind of fraud (i.e. missrepresenting or hiding known information - why didn't you know about this?) seems to be common practice around here and that it is more difficult/expensive to fight against it doesn't make it right as such
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  #34  
Old 01.07.2020, 14:37
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

If the property has the right price for the area, a 3 year contract is not an issue per se as you can still do a resiliation anticipeè du bail (terminate the contract earlier) by providing at least 1 potential new tenant to the Regie.

In my new apartment the owner wanted to sign a 5 year contract. For me and my wife was not a big issue as we want to finally stay in an apartment for a bit longer (third apartment in 3 years) and the price is good (we saw a LOT of apartment and for that size/position the rent is in the average for Geneva). The queue to see the apartment was super long and we got it also because we were among the first to very quickly send the application. So if anything happens I'm confident I can find a new tenant. (and if it's hard I can use Asloca to lower the rent the next time the interest rate goes down).

Just as a reference my previous apartment was a bit overpriced for size/position (I'd say you could find something similar for 50-100 CHF/month less) and I found 4 tenants to take over the rent in 3 days.
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  #35  
Old 01.07.2020, 19:33
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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(and if it's hard I can use Asloca to lower the rent the next time the interest rate goes down).
Are you sure?

You can't get out of the contract by canceling during the minimum duration. I would expect that this means that the contract can't be changed during that time (of course unless both sides freely agree).
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  #36  
Old 01.07.2020, 19:47
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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Are you sure?

You can't get out of the contract by canceling during the minimum duration. I would expect that this means that the contract can't be changed during that time (of course unless both sides freely agree).
Good question. Looks like you can only request a lower rent when you could cancel the contract.
https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...nssenkung.html
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  #37  
Old 01.07.2020, 20:11
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

What an incredible forum! THANK YOU EVERYONE!
Not closer to a house, but I am a lot more informed now.
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  #38  
Old 01.07.2020, 20:15
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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Yes we do know if she tells the truth and, no it is not the truth.



The statement was about Switzerland in general not about the particular lease. That is wrong.
Also a sublet would be through the tenant and the tenant only and would be the tenant own responsibility, so wrong again.
The topic of replacement tenant has not even been addressed.
It might not be ‘standard for Switzerland’. But it certainly is common in the French part for multi year leases on houses.

I was a relocation agent for savers years and leased out my own house. Just about every contract was for 3 years with the first year locked in.

So I don’t think the agent is lying per se.

The tenant can propose something else. If the house is not particularly desirable, usually due to location or it being over priced, the owner/agent will usually agree.
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  #39  
Old 01.07.2020, 20:22
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

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I was a relocation agent for savers years and leased out my own house. Just about every contract was for 3 years with the first year locked in.
Strange contract. In the German part rental contracts are usually open ended with maybe a minimum lease period. Term limited contract are only used if the building is demolished at the end of the contract or the landlord is abroad.
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Old 01.07.2020, 20:24
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Re: 3 year minimum lease period standard for Switzerland?

... But who is the agency working for here? The tenant or the owner? Methinks that this should be made clear right from the beginning.

In this case it appears the agent is working for the owner, but ....
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