Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.08.2020, 21:45
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
Finding accommodation only for residence permit

I am an EU student in Zurich, but will spend most of the next semester outside Switzerland. I don't have accommodation for the next month.


I was thinking of maybe renting some very cheap, unlivable accommodation (maybe even a sublet?) and not being in Switzerland except when I come for exams.

The reason why I would do this is because of the residence permit, which helps in many ways, but primarily allows me to enter Switzerland for my exams next year (with self-isolation period, of course), and then stay in a hotel or something, no matter what the international travel guidelines are.


This is my plan if I don't find reasonable accommodation in other ways.

Is this legal? Can I ask someone to "sublet" me a room which I will never live in, for a price that is lower than the usual prices?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12.08.2020, 18:49
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,144
Groaned at 87 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 18,847 Times in 8,391 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Welcome to the Forum. Renting rooms in shared accommodation is quite common. Sublets are common. But it does need to be livable in the sense that you can't rent a random cellar.

Remember that if you want a residence permit, you also need Swiss health insurance. The basic will only cover you for emergencies abroad, not routine treatment.

You can also only be out of the country for so long before your permit expires, so keep that in mind. And remember tax situations, assuming you earn money while technically living somewhere else but are claiming to live here.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12.08.2020, 19:55
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,734
Groaned at 95 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,286 Times in 2,878 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Have you got a uni friend, who would let you register at their address whilst you are away? Save the rent costs!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.08.2020, 22:05
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
I have someone to ask, maybe not in the same canton, but I kind of have the option. I wanted to know is that actually legal? Can I be registered there, but for there to be no actual room for me?

Quote:
View Post
Welcome to the Forum. Renting rooms in shared accommodation is quite common. Sublets are common. But it does need to be livable in the sense that you can't rent a random cellar.

Remember that if you want a residence permit, you also need Swiss health insurance. The basic will only cover you for emergencies abroad, not routine treatment.

You can also only be out of the country for so long before your permit expires, so keep that in mind. And remember tax situations, assuming you earn money while technically living somewhere else but are claiming to live here.

Thank you!

I have the EU insurance exemption. I plan on being outside the country for ~5 months.

I don't plan on earning salary in the next few months - but, should there be any problems if I work for a few months in z. B. Germany, and pay my taxes there?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.08.2020 at 22:41. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12.08.2020, 22:46
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,734
Groaned at 95 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,286 Times in 2,878 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

If you have a B permit, you can be out of the country for 6 months of the year legally and keep your permit.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12.08.2020, 22:59
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,144
Groaned at 87 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 18,847 Times in 8,391 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
View Post
I have someone to ask, maybe not in the same canton, but I kind of have the option. I wanted to know is that actually legal? Can I be registered there, but for there to be no actual room for me?

Thank you!

I have the EU insurance exemption. I plan on being outside the country for ~5 months.

I don't plan on earning salary in the next few months - but, should there be any problems if I work for a few months in z. B. Germany, and pay my taxes there?
It depends on canton, landlord, and a variety of factors. In some places, the landlord notifies the municipality of who is living where. It can get complicated if you're trying to game the system, for example if you and 3 other people register as living in the same 1-bedroom flat that might look weird. But some landlords and municipalities don't care. Students often live together. Is your plan legal or not? That part I can't answer.

I'm not a tax expert. AFAIK if a person is resident in Switzerland, sh/e is taxed on worldwide income and assets in Switzerland, and uses tax treaties to sort out the differences between the countries. Beyond that, I don't know how it would work.

I imagine the Germans would want you to register as a resident there in order to work or live for more than 90 days, wouldn't they?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13.08.2020, 09:44
venetian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 449
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 501 Times in 241 Posts
venetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
View Post
Can I be registered there, but for there to be no actual room for me?
Usually no, not if there is really no actual room. When you register the city employees check how big the residential unit is and how many people are already registered there, and there's a limit on people depending on the surface.

Of course people can crowd themselves in a small apartment if they like to, but their official address must correspond to something with space for them.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13.08.2020, 09:55
venetian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 449
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 501 Times in 241 Posts
venetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
View Post
should there be any problems if I work for a few months in z. B. Germany, and pay my taxes there?
Usually there are agreements between CH and individual neighboring states. With Italy it works like this, you pay taxes only in the country where you resided the most, meaning at least 6 months + 1 day. Since you can't be resident in more than one country at the time (they talk to each other) it must be one of the two.

In your case you should check the agreement with Germany, but I assume it will be similar, and then if you are resident in CH you won't be in DE and you'll pay taxes in CH.

Let me conclude with a legal comment. The international principle behind the idea of residency is "where one carries on most of his/her businesses". Rules for permits and taxes etc. are derived from this principle. So your idea of being resident in CH but living abroad and working abroad most of the time is kind of searching for complications.

IMHO, it's easier for you to just stay in DE. The likelihood that your university enrollment won't let you in for the exams is balanced by the complications you will face with your plan...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13.08.2020, 11:01
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
View Post
If you have a B permit, you can be out of the country for 6 months of the year legally and keep your permit.

The thing is, my B permit expires in September. If I don't register somewhere, I don't have it anymore.



I don't plan on residing more than 6 months outside Switzerland.

I also, as of now, don't have plans of working for money during these 6 months.
I will be registered as a student at a well-known Swiss university, and have a lot of study-related things to do, most of which can be conducted online.



Other reasons why I would want to keep my permit are the continuity of residence in Switzerland, should it be useful someday.


I'm not that much money-constrained, but it seems extremely wasteful for me to rent an apartment for market price, and then not be in it for ~5 months.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13.08.2020, 11:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

I'm no expert on this subject, but how are you going to renew your B permit? Doesn't it require that you have some form of ongoing income, like a job?

And what is this "EU Insurance Exemption" you talk about? Are you suggesting that a non-Swiss health insurance is valid for Switzerland? It's not.

Or that you have a Swiss insurance that covers you for routine treatment in the EU as well? In which case you should be very careful, since the insurance company is quite likely, in the event of a significant illness claim outside of CH, to check that you are/were really living at your registered Swiss address. If they find out that you've lied about that, they will almost certainly refuse to pay for the treatment, at the very least.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 13.08.2020, 12:08
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,734
Groaned at 95 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,286 Times in 2,878 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
I'm no expert on this subject, but how are you going to renew your B permit? Doesn't it require that you have some form of ongoing income, like a job?
The OP has a student permit.

Quote:
And what is this "EU Insurance Exemption" you talk about? Are you suggesting that a non-Swiss health insurance is valid for Switzerland? It's not.
It is possible in some cases, depending on your home insurance Eg: https://ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/mai...guidelines.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13.08.2020, 12:15
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
I'm no expert on this subject, but how are you going to renew your B permit? Doesn't it require that you have some form of ongoing income, like a job?

And what is this "EU Insurance Exemption" you talk about? Are you suggesting that a non-Swiss health insurance is valid for Switzerland? It's not.

Or that you have a Swiss insurance that covers you for routine treatment in the EU as well? In which case you should be very careful, since the insurance company is quite likely, in the event of a significant illness claim outside of CH, to check that you are/were really living at your registered Swiss address. If they find out that you've lied about that, they will almost certainly refuse to pay for the treatment, at the very least.

Students at my university get the student B permit for the whole length of enrolment, as long as they have a valid address in Switzerland.


I do not intend to make a claim to anything in Switzerland for ilness outside Switzerland. I didn't kniw it was even possible.


My EU country of citizenship covers my costs in Switzerland as long I am registered as a student and don't earn income in Switzerland. This is allowed by Swiss law and the relevant country laws.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13.08.2020, 12:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 1,094
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,316 Times in 601 Posts
LuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

You do need a fixed address for the permit, so if you were renting a room, or in a flat share that's fine. However the permit will only be renewed if you fit mainly into 1 of 3 criteria:

You are independently wealthy and can contribute to the tax base - but in this case you cannot work or be a burden on the state
You are a student enrolled at a Swiss educational institution
You have a job offer from a Swiss company

There are a few exceptions, such as if you start a company (but many conditions here) or have a partner / spouse.

And yes, you will need a Swiss health insurance, but as long as you pay the premiums and are officially resident in Switzerland and do not spend more than 6 months away, you will be covered.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13.08.2020, 12:50
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,734
Groaned at 95 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,286 Times in 2,878 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

You guys are really over complicating this.

The OP has a permit and health cover. All they need is an address in Switzerland to maintain the permit, a continued place on their uni course (student status) and to not be out of Switzerland for more than 6 months.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 13.08.2020, 12:55
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
View Post
You guys are really over complicating this.

The OP has a permit and health cover. All they need is an address in Switzerland to maintain the permit, a continued place on their uni course (student status) and to not be out of Switzerland for more than 6 months.

Yes, exactly. Thank you!


My question was only about the legality of, say, family friend subletting a room to me for a nominal price, but me not actually living in Switzerland for the next several months, and finding real accommodation aftereards.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 13.08.2020, 13:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,883
Groaned at 89 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 11,913 Times in 4,837 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

You have a Swiss student permit so that you can study at a Swiss university.
Permits, in Switzerland, are issued upon the concept "middlepoint of one's life". That includes: where you study or work, and where you sleep each night.

If you build a different "middlepoint" outside of Switzerland, instead, and do not uphold your "centre of your life" here in Switzerland, as I see it, that would invalidated the permit.

However, it is known that universities sometimes send their students out to work on a practical, or project, or exchange, at some other university. In that case, the student temporarily leaves their "middlepoing of their lives" (which continues to be in Switzerland) to attend to the project abroad, and then returns "home" to Switzerland.

If that is what you're hoping to do, then I suggest you ask your supervisor or professor how students who are out of the country, for such a purpose, maintain their permits. If the months you're hoping to spend away from Switzerland are not part of a formal project organised by the university... is there some way you could make it so, as in, for example, a project you develop for field-research to do with your studies, and get that approved by your professor?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 13.08.2020, 14:03
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

It's not that I need to leave Switzerland.


It's that everything relevant to me is online next semester (except the exams), there are no social events, and I don't want to be in Switzerland completely alone if I don't need to be there.



I would not take up residence from September if not for the possible complications when I want to reenter for exams next year, or the fact that continued residence in Switzerland could be beneficial later in life.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09.11.2020, 20:10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
antokha has no particular reputation at present
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Quote:
View Post
It's not that I need to leave Switzerland.


It's that everything relevant to me is online next semester (except the exams), there are no social events, and I don't want to be in Switzerland completely alone if I don't need to be there.



I would not take up residence from September if not for the possible complications when I want to reenter for exams next year, or the fact that continued residence in Switzerland could be beneficial later in life.
How did you solve your problem finally?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09.11.2020, 21:48
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mdkoki has earned some respectmdkoki has earned some respect
Re: Finding accommodation only for residence permit

Found an apartment with the help of some cotenants, without a residence permit.

Everything is legal, of course.



I will register when I come back, and that should be OK given the current rules, because I have a place to stay.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
residence permit, student, sublet




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Accommodation Contracts and Residence Permit colakoglumelis Permits/visas/government 0 06.09.2018 11:48
Residence permit before finding an apartment? Chris_ Permits/visas/government 12 09.12.2016 19:19
finding accommodation in Neuchatel Archimidis Housing in general 6 20.01.2016 13:41
Finding accommodation from outside Switzerland RadBaron Housing in general 13 20.07.2013 08:43
Finding accommodation before arriving? (Zurich) constellation Housing in general 0 02.05.2008 13:43


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0