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Old 31.08.2020, 21:28
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I guess no land internet line either?
Great 4G, however, better than at home!

P.S. Taxes are CHF 300/year.

Tom
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Old 01.09.2020, 00:05
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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My wife wanted a rustico, most were in the middle of nowhere, along dubious roads, 1 hour away or more.

Finally found one 4 km away, only 200m of sometimes dubious road (but fine with our 4x4 Panda and Maverick), 5mx11m outside, 4mx10m inside, 300m2 of land, the rest public forest, nearest neighbor 900m, CHF 90K!

Negatives are needs photo-voltaic (which is fine for most of the time) or generator (for the lawn mower and weed-whacker), and water is collected rain water, but there is a spring 200m away with safe drinking water.

Tom
curious as to the reason for buying this? i can understand buying a place away from the city, but since it's only 4k away from you...
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  #23  
Old 01.09.2020, 11:09
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Re: General property buying question(s)

https://en.comparis.ch/immobilien/ma.../show/19855981

If a house was built in 1979, will it last another 40 years (till 2060)? I am planning to live another 40 years minimum
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Old 01.09.2020, 11:53
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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https://en.comparis.ch/immobilien/ma.../show/19855981

If a house was built in 1979, will it last another 40 years (till 2060)? I am planning to live another 40 years minimum
Rule of thumb is you need to be budgeting 1% of market value, or 2% of construction value per year for maintenance just to maintain the status quo. Any improvements come on top of that.

In an appartment such as this there will also be community charges you need to budget for.
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Old 01.09.2020, 12:15
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Rule of thumb is you need to be budgeting 1% of market value, or 2% of construction value per year for maintenance just to maintain the status quo. Any improvements come on top of that.

In an appartment such as this there will also be community charges you need to budget for.
2% is like 5000 per year for that property! Any idea of how much community charges would be for similar property? Around CHF200 per month?

This getting old is not sounding like much fun anymore! Whoever said that money does not buy you happiness must have been broke like me
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  #26  
Old 01.09.2020, 12:16
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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https://en.comparis.ch/immobilien/ma.../show/19855981

If a house was built in 1979, will it last another 40 years (till 2060)? I am planning to live another 40 years minimum
It'll be good for the next 40 years. But if you have any doubts, I'd get a structural engineer to have a look.

Perhaps you could rent it for a longish holiday – I suggest in a fairly bleak month, say November – to see whether you can hack it. Christmas and February would also be good, just to see what it's like when it gets a bit busier. That's assuming you're planning to live there permanently. Register your interest in buying, but don't make any sudden moves. The property looks good value, but nobody seems to be rushing in to buy it so there's probably room for negotiation. You'd also have to buy a parking space for 25k.

Ernen is a nice village, particularly in summer, but getting to know the locals will take time.

The description states that it's close to Aletsch Arena. That's true as the crow flies, but the reality is that it'd still be quite a trek.

Sorry, lots of unsolicited advice. I'm going to have a cup of tea now.
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Old 01.09.2020, 12:18
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Sorry, lots of unsolicited advice. I'm going to have a cup of tea now.
Thread is exactly for advice so thank you very much
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  #28  
Old 01.09.2020, 12:26
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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curious as to the reason for buying this? i can understand buying a place away from the city, but since it's only 4k away from you...
No neighbors.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 01.09.2020, 12:38
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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2% is like 5000 per year for that property! Any idea of how much community charges would be for similar property? Around CHF200 per month?

This getting old is not sounding like much fun anymore! Whoever said that money does not buy you happiness must have been broke like me
There's a bit of general info about Ernen here
https://www.raiffeisen.ch/region-vis...property-price

Die Gemeinde should be able to tell you what the community charges are
http://www.ernen.ch/gemeinde/allgemein/home
I pay CHF 450.00 per year to my Gemeinde.
You'd have to check how much the contribution to the Erneuerungsfonds per year for the property is. As it's a holiday village, you may pay into a fonds for all the properties or just for the house in which your property is located. I pay around CHF1'500.00 - 2'000.00 per year for a property of around the same value, but it's difficult to compare without more information.

You'd get the actual figures once you register your interest. Bear in mind too that in Wallis the buyer pays for their own legal costs as well as those of the seller.

You can get a rough estimate of what the property is worth here
https://www.hev-schweiz.ch/eigentum/...lienbewertung/

It's not a bad idea to join the Hauseigentümerverband. It's quite cheap considering it gives you access to all sorts useful information.
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  #30  
Old 01.09.2020, 16:51
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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2% is like 5000 per year for that property! Any idea of how much community charges would be for similar property? Around CHF200 per month?

This getting old is not sounding like much fun anymore! Whoever said that money does not buy you happiness must have been broke like me
No, it's 1% when you are basing it on total purchase value, so half your figure.

I wold check with neighbours to get an idea of actual running costs and any ongoing issues.

The appartment looks quite cheap to me and they have even dropped the price so maybe there is a reason? That reason may be something you can deal with, but it would be good to know before you make the jump.
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  #31  
Old 01.09.2020, 17:36
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Rule of thumb is you need to be budgeting 1% of market value, or 2% of construction value per year for maintenance just to maintain the status quo. Any improvements come on top of that.

In an appartment such as this there will also be community charges you need to budget for.
Im really not sure where this comes from, but its a long way from reality. if you buy a house for say 1.5 million, that means you are saying 1200 francs per month just on keeping the house from falling to bits, thats just crazy. the figure is half this in reality even accounting for saving up and fixing big things.
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Old 01.09.2020, 17:58
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Im really not sure where this comes from, but its a long way from reality. if you buy a house for say 1.5 million, that means you are saying 1200 francs per month just on keeping the house from falling to bits, thats just crazy. the figure is half this in reality even accounting for saving up and fixing big things.
when you look at the useful life of various elements in a house and the costs to replace, then 1% is not crazy at all.
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  #33  
Old 01.09.2020, 18:22
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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No, it's 1% when you are basing it on total purchase value, so half your figure.

I wold check with neighbours to get an idea of actual running costs and any ongoing issues.

The appartment looks quite cheap to me and they have even dropped the price so maybe there is a reason? That reason may be something you can deal with, but it would be good to know before you make the jump.
It's always good to talk to the neighbours to get the low-down, but as this is a 'holiday village', there might not be many owners around. But by registering your interest you'll get the accounts for the last few years sent to you.

One of the reasons why the property has been on the market a long time and why the price has dropped may be that it's owned as a second home and was used as a holiday rental. As the owners, who may well live abroad, get older, they often want to sell off their properties as they make less and less use of it, but they're not in any hurry. So neither the length of time on the market nor the price drop need be particularly sinister. It often happens around here. The locals, especially the young ones, prefer to live in new-builds in the valley and they often have second homes in the family anyway, leaving this market to foreigners and üsseschwiizer. What with Covid-19, nobody can tell what will happen to the holiday rental market, which is why I think there may well be room for negotiation.

So the property first went on the market in October 2018 for 257k and was reduced in February 2020 to 247k. Add the 25k for the compulsory garage space so we're talking about 272k. That's actually quite a lot for an apartment in Ernen.

Take a look at this https://www.agtenimmobilien.ch/kauf/...aurant-im-goms
It's a bit further up the Rhone valley, but it's a lot of house/houses for the money. And that too will last you way longer than 40 years, even if you don't do any work on it.

But it's hard to compare as it's not like-for-like. Ultimately, the property is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it.

Last edited by squeezethecroc; 01.09.2020 at 18:55. Reason: elaboration
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  #34  
Old 01.09.2020, 20:00
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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when you look at the useful life of various elements in a house and the costs to replace, then 1% is not crazy at all.
I think it is I'm afraid. 15,000 per year lets use the example. how long do things last ? 20 years ? Kitchens and bathrooms last around that. Roof ? 25 years. Heating ? 30 years or more.

of course many of these last longer but because its an argument lets assume everything in your house drops to bits on its lifetime so we'll say 25 years (about right for kitchens, wildly under for heating and roof):

Windows: 25k
Roof: 75k
Kitchen: 50k
Bathrooms: 40k (20k each).
Floors (unlikely): 10k
Heating: 50k

Really big figures to replace things.

total ? 210k

15,000 per year for 25 years ? 375k.

Yes you can say "what about doors" and all that but even the above is extreme - thousands of houses have heating systems more than 40 years old and roofs more than 50. Any if this is meant to be things only for the house to retain its value then its even more absurd because when you replace oil heating with a heat pump you increase your value by about 5-10% at least.

Im not looking to pick a fight Phil, its meant in a humble way, but honestly i live in a house from 1978, right on the nugget for this argument, and I spend nowehere near 1% of the house value per month just keeping it going.
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Old 01.09.2020, 20:23
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I think it is I'm afraid. 15,000 per year lets use the example. how long do things last ? 20 years ? Kitchens and bathrooms last around that. Roof ? 25 years. Heating ? 30 years or more.

of course many of these last longer but because its an argument lets assume everything in your house drops to bits on its lifetime so we'll say 25 years (about right for kitchens, wildly under for heating and roof):

Windows: 25k
Roof: 75k
Kitchen: 50k
Bathrooms: 40k (20k each).
Floors (unlikely): 10k
Heating: 50k

Really big figures to replace things.

total ? 210k

15,000 per year for 25 years ? 375k.

Yes you can say "what about doors" and all that but even the above is extreme - thousands of houses have heating systems more than 40 years old and roofs more than 50. Any if this is meant to be things only for the house to retain its value then its even more absurd because when you replace oil heating with a heat pump you increase your value by about 5-10% at least.

Im not looking to pick a fight Phil, its meant in a humble way, but honestly i live in a house from 1978, right on the nugget for this argument, and I spend nowehere near 1% of the house value per month just keeping it going.
Replacing windows & heating on a 40 year old house in London cost 5 tines the Purchase cost of the original house which was new 40 years ago
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  #36  
Old 01.09.2020, 20:29
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Replacing windows & heating on a 40 year old house in London cost 5 tines the Purchase cost of the original house which was new 40 years ago
Showing you what a wonderful investment that house was!
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  #37  
Old 01.09.2020, 21:35
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I think it is I'm afraid. 15,000 per year lets use the example. how long do things last ? 20 years ? Kitchens and bathrooms last around that. Roof ? 25 years. Heating ? 30 years or more.

of course many of these last longer but because its an argument lets assume everything in your house drops to bits on its lifetime so we'll say 25 years (about right for kitchens, wildly under for heating and roof):

Windows: 25k
Roof: 75k
Kitchen: 50k
Bathrooms: 40k (20k each).
Floors (unlikely): 10k
Heating: 50k

Really big figures to replace things.

total ? 210k

15,000 per year for 25 years ? 375k.

Yes you can say "what about doors" and all that but even the above is extreme - thousands of houses have heating systems more than 40 years old and roofs more than 50. Any if this is meant to be things only for the house to retain its value then its even more absurd because when you replace oil heating with a heat pump you increase your value by about 5-10% at least.

Im not looking to pick a fight Phil, its meant in a humble way, but honestly i live in a house from 1978, right on the nugget for this argument, and I spend nowehere near 1% of the house value per month just keeping it going.
And what state was your house in when you bought it?

We bought a 1973 terrace apartment with garden that needed total renovation. I‘ve not added up the whole thing, but it‘s over 400k overall. Apart from the flooring you‘re not far off the mark for the individual items, but you‘ve missed all sorts out that needs doing on top.

Additional items - bringing electrics up to modern standards including smart home will run you 50k. Ripping out all the old shit and disposing on it costs more than you can possible imagine. You‘re going to need to replaster the walls and paint them (and painting needs doing more than once every 20 years), plus there‘s the outside painting. You‘ve also not mentioned replacing the blinds. Then there‘s the garden... And if you are getting multiple trades in at once, because the plumber doesn‘t do tiling or electrics and definitely won‘t be plastering or painting, you‘re going to want a Bauherr/project manager to co-ordinate and make sure you don‘t get ripped off.
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  #38  
Old 01.09.2020, 22:23
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I think it is I'm afraid. 15,000 per year lets use the example. how long do things last ? 20 years ? Kitchens and bathrooms last around that. Roof ? 25 years. Heating ? 30 years or more.

of course many of these last longer but because its an argument lets assume everything in your house drops to bits on its lifetime so we'll say 25 years (about right for kitchens, wildly under for heating and roof):

Windows: 25k
Roof: 75k
Kitchen: 50k
Bathrooms: 40k (20k each).
Floors (unlikely): 10k
Heating: 50k

Really big figures to replace things.

total ? 210k

15,000 per year for 25 years ? 375k.

Yes you can say "what about doors" and all that but even the above is extreme - thousands of houses have heating systems more than 40 years old and roofs more than 50. Any if this is meant to be things only for the house to retain its value then its even more absurd because when you replace oil heating with a heat pump you increase your value by about 5-10% at least.

Im not looking to pick a fight Phil, its meant in a humble way, but honestly i live in a house from 1978, right on the nugget for this argument, and I spend nowehere near 1% of the house value per month just keeping it going.
I think you're under-estimating things and missing out a lot. Let's say you have relatively cheap laminate. Most have a lifespan of 15 years and it's going to cost a lot more than 10k to replace! Pipework, lasts maybe 50 years, but when the time comes it is not cheap. I asked the guy how long the oil boilers tend to last. He told me in practice they die after 8 years.

Kitchens can last 25 years, but realistically are refurbished more regularly. Appliances within them die far more regularly.

Cracked roof tiles (plus water damage - I'm dealing with this now), burst pipe damage (had this and learned insurance paid the damage but not the replacement caused ultimately by faulty boiler), cracked drainage pipe from tree root.

Then there's the more regular stuff - wall painting, roof cleaning, drain cleaning, garden maintenance.

Of course you can do nothing for a while and live in a 1970s kitchen and bathroom but few people who buy their home want to do that and of course it impacts both your quality of living and ultimate costs you more when it comes time to sell.
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Old 01.09.2020, 22:47
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Re: General property buying question(s)

You guys have taken the wind out of my property buying sail I will have to buy Euro Lotto tomorrow.
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Old 02.09.2020, 08:23
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I think you're under-estimating things and missing out a lot. Let's say you have relatively cheap laminate. Most have a lifespan of 15 years and it's going to cost a lot more than 10k to replace! Pipework, lasts maybe 50 years, but when the time comes it is not cheap. I asked the guy how long the oil boilers tend to last. He told me in practice they die after 8 years.

Kitchens can last 25 years, but realistically are refurbished more regularly. Appliances within them die far more regularly.

Cracked roof tiles (plus water damage - I'm dealing with this now), burst pipe damage (had this and learned insurance paid the damage but not the replacement caused ultimately by faulty boiler), cracked drainage pipe from tree root.

Then there's the more regular stuff - wall painting, roof cleaning, drain cleaning, garden maintenance.

Of course you can do nothing for a while and live in a 1970s kitchen and bathroom but few people who buy their home want to do that and of course it impacts both your quality of living and ultimate costs you more when it comes time to sell.
Its a fair point, though I think (and also to Eyebee's point) it might depend on how you do things. I am in a similar situation, we bought our house knowing that a lot of renovation was needed and we've brought it up to standard but not at that level of cost but it depends on how you do your renovation (not a criticisim, people lead different lives and have different amounts of free time). Yes if you use Swiss tradespeople and a project manager your going to quickly get to high figures (I remember a swiss quote for replacing one pipe, which was already exposed, in a bathroom for 1000 CHF) so I tend to mix it around more and do some myself.

Also the balance between upgrading and maintaining is a self interpreted point. I'd argue if you spent 50k on electrics upgrading your house to smart home standards then you haven't maintained its value, which is the 1% figure, but have markedly increased it.

Its horses for courses and if I'm begging on the street in a few years because of house expenditure then fair enough, but right now after a block of initial expense that we planned for, then yes we do some maintenance on the house but this is a long way short of 1200 per month.
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