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Old 02.09.2020, 09:34
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Re: General property buying question(s)

the 1% per year includes "nebenkosten" (heating costs+electricity+water+garbage - probably around 500 p.m.)
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  #42  
Old 02.09.2020, 09:39
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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the 1% per year includes "nebenkosten"
No, it does NOT.

Tom
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Old 02.09.2020, 10:09
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Re: General property buying question(s)

We have a house that could do with some updating now. We got some quotes recently and have only just picked ourselves up off the floor. CHF 6,500 for a glass splashback in the kitchen, CHF 12,500 to replace french doors to the garden, and an unbelievable CHF 80,000 minimum to replace the garden terrace (about 30 sq m) and fit a cover over an external staircase! The house is set back from the road and the garden is elevated There's an access pathway although not big enough for a crane. The extortionate cost of redoing the garden terrace did not include the cost of a helicopter (wth??) to bring the materials in.
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  #44  
Old 02.09.2020, 10:12
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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We have a house that could do with some updating now. We got some quotes recently and have only just picked ourselves up off the floor. CHF 6,500 for a glass splashback in the kitchen, CHF 12,500 to replace french doors to the garden, and an unbelievable CHF 80,000 minimum to replace the garden terrace (about 30 sq m) and fit a cover over an external staircase! The house is set back from the road and the garden is elevated There's an access pathway although not big enough for a crane. The extortionate cost of redoing the garden terrace did not include the cost of a helicopter (wth??) to bring the materials in.
you might find the cost of the helicopter to be surprisingly reasonable.
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  #45  
Old 02.09.2020, 10:20
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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you might find the cost of the helicopter to be surprisingly reasonable.
We won't be finding out. Turns out we are happier than we thought with our house as it is .
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  #46  
Old 02.09.2020, 10:36
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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We have a house that could do with some updating now. We got some quotes recently and have only just picked ourselves up off the floor. CHF 6,500 for a glass splashback in the kitchen, CHF 12,500 to replace french doors to the garden, and an unbelievable CHF 80,000 minimum to replace the garden terrace (about 30 sq m) and fit a cover over an external staircase! The house is set back from the road and the garden is elevated There's an access pathway although not big enough for a crane. The extortionate cost of redoing the garden terrace did not include the cost of a helicopter (wth??) to bring the materials in.
and this is the strange thing in switzerland. The quotes are beyond belief, but they always are. I want a replacement fireplace put in for the old one, and having seen I wasnt swiss and lived in a house the nice man from the fireplace shop quotes FIFTEEN THOUSAND FRANCS to do that. Even the Ramoner's jaw dropped when he found out the quote. If the swiss tradespeople were even a tiny bit, just a little bit, more honest in their quotes and didnt rack them up 3 times because they are dealing with foreigners things might go a bit more smoothly.

For your patio, get a quote from a french or german company, see how it compares.
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  #47  
Old 02.09.2020, 10:42
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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We have a house that could do with some updating now. We got some quotes recently and have only just picked ourselves up off the floor. CHF 6,500 for a glass splashback in the kitchen
How big is the kitchen? Or rather, how big is the splash back? You're quote is three times what we paid a few years ago so unless it includes lots of preparatory work and holes for sockets etc, I'd get another quote.

If the surface is clean and ready for the splash back- it's held on with double-sided tape and then siliconed along the edges.

Glass splash-backs are so, so much better than tiles.
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  #48  
Old 02.09.2020, 10:50
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Re: General property buying question(s)

This is why, think about retirement and just for me besides the idea of a rustic project one of these, if I decide I want minimum to do:

Apartment like this:

or a small house like this

The later I am sure would outlast me and with small cost.

Not sure what I have about moving to Lugano but the brief visits I have had I could see myself living there. Maybe a few weeks holiday there next year plus some long weekends ... Plus the go and live in a place you don't speak the language but all good challenges.

Need to wait most probably a couple of years before buying as my apartment gets sold, split the proceeds, settle debts and see what is left. However I want to start thinking about it now

Certainly in two years I would have enough money for the deposit and if interest rates stay the same a small mortgage.

Should I raid some of my pension before or even wait until I retire, I need to find answers to those questions.

Nice to think about ... I don't need much or want to much but I do want to enjoy my years.

Last edited by magic; 02.09.2020 at 11:42.
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Old 02.09.2020, 11:00
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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How big is the kitchen? Or rather, how big is the splash back? You're quote is three times what we paid a few years ago so unless it includes lots of preparatory work and holes for sockets etc, I'd get another quote.

If the surface is clean and ready for the splash back- it's held on with double-sided tape and then siliconed along the edges.

Glass splash-backs are so, so much better than tiles.
Thanks for the steer. The splashback area is about 2.5 m by 3.5 m with a height of 50cm. Pretty bog standard I would have thought. There are 2 sockets. Currently we have tiles. My idea of cost was about CHF 2,500 so much more in line with what you paid.

Last edited by Klostersgirl; 02.09.2020 at 12:44.
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Old 02.09.2020, 11:20
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Apartment like this:

or a small house like this.

I think you linked same page for both.


This seems like a good buy. Built in 2020.
https://www.homegate.ch/kaufen/3000604942
Ground floor will maybe impact the mountain view though.

I will then put wooden floors and upgrade the kitchen bathroom myself.


Edit- Actually kitchen looks ok. Shower cubicle I will replace first.
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  #51  
Old 02.09.2020, 11:45
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I think you linked same page for both.
I just updated the 2nd link which would be my preference.

One option is if I acquire it before retirement, plus uncertainty as to how long my children will live with me, is that I could rent it out.

Certainly take a look at the 2nd one, low energy consumption and as long as you do basic maintenance should outlast me.
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Old 02.09.2020, 11:53
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Re: General property buying question(s)

Going back to the property I linked as an example, it is CHF189,000 and I could potentially happily live rest of my future retired life there. So the questions that come to my mind are-

1- If you had the cash sitting in the bank, how would you approach buying that property? I mean would you pay 100% or take a mortgage out? If mortgage then what % and for how long?

2- I want to work all my life but technically retire in 15-20years. Does it make any sense while living in ZH currently (paying very cheap rent luckily) to buy a property in Valais from tax and outgoings CHF point of view?

3- I could continue saving money for next 10+ years and buy a property then but similar property would be more expensive and wipe those extra CHFs that I save?

Ideally I would like to be a kid again, life was so simple. Playing, eating and chasing girls while parents worried about the rest
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  #53  
Old 02.09.2020, 12:01
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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I just updated the 2nd link which would be my preference.

One option is if I acquire it before retirement, plus uncertainty as to how long my children will live with me, is that I could rent it out.

Certainly take a look at the 2nd one, low energy consumption and as long as you do basic maintenance should outlast me.
It is in Lugano though, no mountains like Valais, I don't speak Italian plus it is lot more expensive. Looks interesting though.
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:08
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Re: General property buying question(s)

Not having a mortgage, as I think was said before, is a no brainer in many ways since the mortgage and interest can be deducted from your tax return. Remember that you have to give a valuation on your property (nothing like the purchase price if ours is anything to go by) plus theoretical rental. Example: we bought our 6 room house for CHF320k, the valuation for tax is CHF191k plus CHF10k theoretical rent. Against that we have a CHF250k mortgage with CHF4k interest and can also deduct any maintenance costs on our tax return.

The downside is you never pay off the mortgage here so you'd have to calculate paying that for the rest of your life unlike in other countries where you completely pay it off over time.
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:20
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Going back to the property I linked as an example, it is CHF189,000 and I could potentially happily live rest of my future retired life there. So the questions that come to my mind are-

1- If you had the cash sitting in the bank, how would you approach buying that property? I mean would you pay 100% or take a mortgage out? If mortgage then what % and for how long?

2- I want to work all my life but technically retire in 15-20years. Does it make any sense while living in ZH currently (paying very cheap rent luckily) to buy a property in Valais from tax and outgoings CHF point of view?

3- I could continue saving money for next 10+ years and buy a property then but similar property would be more expensive and wipe those extra CHFs that I save?

Ideally I would like to be a kid again, life was so simple. Playing, eating and chasing girls while parents worried about the rest
With the level of the questions you are asking, it appears that you want us to act as the role of your parents!

1) If you have cash sitting in the bank it is making zero interest. Why would you take a loan that you have to pay interest on. The correct answer is because you can put the cash to work making you more than the loan interest. If you have the cash to buy property in the bank and not invested, it suggests to me that you are not interested in taking the risk of investments. If you want a mortgage, the rates are freely available on all the banks’ websites.

2) you will have to pay maintenance and communal charges on the property once you buy it. It should be tax neutral, as you are transferring wealth from cash to property. If you don’t live in the property you don’t pay eigenmietwert. The value of the property could go up or down in the meantime.

3) property doesn’t always go up in value. Who knows what the future holds. Will the increase in property value outweigh the ongoing maintenance and charges over 10 years?
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:27
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Not having a mortgage, as I think was said before, is a no brainer in many ways since the mortgage and interest can be deducted from your tax return. Remember that you have to give a valuation on your property (nothing like the purchase price if ours is anything to go by) plus theoretical rental. Example: we bought our 6 room house for CHF320k, the valuation for tax is CHF191k plus CHF10k theoretical rent. Against that we have a CHF250k mortgage with CHF4k interest and can also deduct any maintenance costs on our tax return.

The downside is you never pay off the mortgage here so you'd have to calculate paying that for the rest of your life unlike in other countries where you completely pay it off over time.
Argh!!!! There are so many topics confused here it is unreal.

You deduct interest at your marginal tax rate. Unless your marginal tax rate is over 100% paying interest costs you more than the deduction.

You can still deduct maintenance regardless of mortgage.

The difference in wealth tax if there is any on the theoretical value of a house costing CHF 200k is negligible.

The theoretical rent (eigenmietwert) isn’t paid if you don’t live there.
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:30
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Example: we bought our 6 room house for CHF320k, the valuation for tax is CHF191k plus CHF10k theoretical rent.
Your house was on sale for 320k
You paid cash I assume 70k

You took mortgae out for the remaining 250k
On the 250k you pay 4k interest
_______________________________________________

Why is valuation for tax CHF191k and not 320k or 250k?

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The downside is you never pay off the mortgage here so you'd have to calculate paying that for the rest of your life unlike in other countries where you completely pay it off over time.
This really is a mind **** for me. As an example, imagine you have 320k just sitting in the bank. You declare it on your tax return and pay tax on it.
If you buy the property 100% in cash for 320k, it still would be shown as 320k property on your tax return. It just changed from liquid cash to solid cash. Then if you make repairs to your property, can't you just put it as outgoings on your tax return?
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:32
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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Not having a mortgage, as I think was said before, is a no brainer in many ways since the mortgage and interest can be deducted from your tax return. Remember that you have to give a valuation on your property (nothing like the purchase price if ours is anything to go by) plus theoretical rental. Example: we bought our 6 room house for CHF320k, the valuation for tax is CHF191k plus CHF10k theoretical rent. Against that we have a CHF250k mortgage with CHF4k interest and can also deduct any maintenance costs on our tax return.

The downside is you never pay off the mortgage here so you'd have to calculate paying that for the rest of your life unlike in other countries where you completely pay it off over time.
What if you didn't have the mortgage, could you deduct the 10K theoretical rent against other taxable income?

There is also a taxable allowance before you get taxed anything too and if you own a small place & small pension but liveable there maybe a balance where tax just equals zero & you don't need to worry about being in -hoc- to a bank.

Not to mention you can dodge all these insurance and other types of polices I ended up getting into which really were just money generators for the financial institutions.
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:34
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Re: General property buying question(s)

No mortgage means the property shows up as an asset on your tax return and the 10k amount also shows as a benefit/theoretical income.

Speak to a decent tax advisor. I am sure they would advise a small mortgage in most cases.
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Old 02.09.2020, 12:46
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Re: General property buying question(s)

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No mortgage means the property shows up as an asset on your tax return and the 10k amount also shows as a benefit/theoretical income.

Speak to a decent tax advisor. I am sure they would advise a small mortgage in most cases.
Why?

ETA please read my posts above and tell me why I am wrong.

Second edit. I suggest that anyone who isn’t using their home for as collateral for leveraged investments in the markets reads this book to understand why having a mortgage is the more expensive thing to do.

https://amzn.eu/ajuRKNb
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