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Old 28.08.2020, 07:16
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I asked the question because most of the comments stated that one does not need a degree to find employment in Switzerland. Unfortunately in most other places in the world there are not that many jobs one has to try and stay ahead of the game and we do not know how the job market in CH will look like in 20 years' time. Also do not forget that, when the jobs get scarce, those with immigrant backgrounds will be at the bottom of the pecking order.
I thought this 30 years ago when I came to Switzerland but because Switzerland’s academic system is flexible, my worries were unfounded. What we see more of today are students learning a second profession therefore extending their learning time and shortening their employment years.

I personally would like to see a tenth school year become mandatory in order to allow teenagers to mature a bit more before choosing a profession.
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  #42  
Old 28.08.2020, 07:45
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I asked the question because most of the comments stated that one does not need a degree to find employment in Switzerland. Unfortunately in most other places in the world there are not that many jobs one has to try and stay ahead of the game and we do not know how the job market in CH will look like in 20 years' time. Also do not forget that, when the jobs get scarce, those with immigrant backgrounds will be at the bottom of the pecking order.
Yes, I did get your doubts because this is what has been on our minds too at one point or another, especially when we looked for a new home. (so I also did get where OP is coming from with all those questions about schools in different areas)
My recommendation is to study the Swiss education system (there's a book I forgot the title, I might get back here to add info), if you do that you'll see there are different ways/paths to reach one's goal i.e. having a degree, and if one doesn't get into a gymnasium it's not the end of the world. Of course, you may want to consider private schools/gymnasiums if your mind is set on this path, but the Swiss system does offer some other opportunities/ways. I don't agree with you on the last sentence - I think those kids i.e. future adults with immigration background will be like everyone else and be confronted with the same issues. If their profession/qualifications will be in higher demand they'll do better than the rest. At least this is what I honestly believe and if it's not like that, well, my children have two countries after all. I truly believe though that they'll have all the chances and opportunities most people in the world are just dreaming of. For your own sake, please trust people more, they're not all SVP and the likes.
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  #43  
Old 28.08.2020, 08:32
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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.....
Since people appear to think that Jobs was unsuccessful: ..........
Not unsuccessful, just an a...h...e
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  #44  
Old 28.08.2020, 08:57
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Not unsuccessful, just an a...h...e
Thats why he was successful, he did not let people get in the way of his vision.
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  #45  
Old 28.08.2020, 09:50
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I asked the question because most of the comments stated that one does not need a degree to find employment in Switzerland. Unfortunately in most other places in the world there are not that many jobs one has to try and stay ahead of the game and we do not know how the job market in CH will look like in 20 years' time. Also do not forget that, when the jobs get scarce, those with immigrant backgrounds will be at the bottom of the pecking order.
Yes that is a valid fear. But - as others have pointed out - you can get a uni degree if you start with an apprenticeship. So if your child wants to do an apprenticeship at the post, let him/her. See if its possible to do the vocational matura at the same time - it often is. Otherwise it takes 1 year after the end of the apprenticeship. Then you can start with a University of Applied Science. For most countries that will be enough. If not, you can enter any Swiss Uni degree with a Bachelor from an University of Applied Sciences. Sometimes directly at Master level. I know. I did it.
So there are ways. Also if your child wants to leave the country at one point in time.
What you however need to do, is make sure they can stay in Switzerland. Meaning get them a Swiss passport as quickly as possible. Years of schooling in Switzerland count double. So after the end of year 9, they can become Swiss. Let them. Even if the parents don't/can't!
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  #46  
Old 28.08.2020, 10:07
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Success, its definition and whether it has been achieved, is a personal thing. Your definition is likely to entirely contradict somebody else's.
That was the whole point of 22yards' post, it was FMF who started about money being the measure of success i.e. the more one has the more successful they are.
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Old 28.08.2020, 11:20
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

In my sons class out of 20 children, 4 went to Gymnasium and all Ausländers.

I guess the locals too busy learning about Cow bells.
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  #48  
Old 28.08.2020, 11:31
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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it was FMF who started about money being the measure of success i.e. the more one has the more successful they are.
I never wrote that, you're making it up to suit your own agenda as usual, nice try
However I am happy to state that people without any money are unsuccessful.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 28.08.2020 at 12:41. Reason: spelling
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  #49  
Old 28.08.2020, 12:37
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I never wrote that, your making it up to suit your own agenda as usual, nice try
However I am happy to state that people without any money are unsuccessful.
At the end of the day we all get opportunities in life be it Gymnasium or others, it’s what you do with that opportunity that counts.Plenty go to Gymi pushed by parents and do nothing with the chance, plenty of Swiss moan about Ausländers and their high salaries as they never did anything with their lives.
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  #50  
Old 28.08.2020, 12:45
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Not unsuccessful, just an a...h...e
You're contradicting yourself.
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Steve Jobs is the classic example of financial success does not necessarily correlate with success as a person.
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  #51  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:08
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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That was the whole point of 22yards' post, it was FMF who started about money being the measure of success i.e. the more one has the more successful they are.
My point is that others claim to know what success is for person A, Jobs in this case when they imply that their own measure should also be A's. Obviously that's not the case, whatever someone strives for is their own decision.
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  #52  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:37
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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My point is that others claim to know what success is for person A, Jobs in this case when they imply that their own measure should also be A's. Obviously that's not the case, whatever someone strives for is their own decision.
Agree on that. The whole discussion about Steve Jobs as an example of success is rather useless for many. Not everyone aspires to become something like him, and not because he wasn't successful (obviously he was, at least from some points of view) simply because many people don't think of money that much. Money is something that help us have comfort and security, not a goal in itself. And for many people having a degree or more degrees is a true measure of their success, who are we to tell them otherwise. Money come on a second place, they're not looking for the best payed jobs or to make more money and have their own business etc.
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  #53  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:43
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Agree on that. The whole discussion about Steve Jobs as an example of success is rather useless for many. Not everyone aspires to become something like him, and not because he wasn't successful (obviously he was, at least from some points of view) simply because many people don't think of money that much. Money is something that help us have comfort and security, not a goal in itself.
If people are incapable of being sufficiently imaginative in their aspirations, I would blame it on their left wing parents, or teachers assuming you would rather not take the responsibility yourself

I don't think Steve Jobs was motivated by money, or ever his goal, it was the result of his success because due to his character.
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  #54  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:46
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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If people are incapable of being sufficiently imaginative in their aspirations, I would blame it on their left wing parents, or teachers
Whatever...

"It might be Friday but I'm not going to bother."

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I asked the question because most of the comments stated that one does not need a degree to find employment in Switzerland. Unfortunately in most other places in the world there are not that many jobs one has to try and stay ahead of the game and we do not know how the job market in CH will look like in 20 years' time. Also do not forget that, when the jobs get scarce, those with immigrant backgrounds will be at the bottom of the pecking order.

DerDieDas, you and OP may want to get your hands on this book "Going Local. Your guide to Swiss schooling" by Margaret Oertig. It's in English but it also has all the useful terms in German, French and Italian. It really has all the info you need to know for each canton. Take care.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.08.2020 at 14:08.
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  #55  
Old 28.08.2020, 14:15
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Whatever...

"It might be Friday but I'm not going to bother."
Hit the nail on the head it obviously hurts
So unlike you not to flog a dead horse, hope I have not spoilt your weekend.
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Old 28.08.2020, 14:25
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Hit the nail on the head it obviously hurts
So unlike you not to flog a dead horse, hope I have not spoilt your weekend.
Your post was ridiculous, as this one too. It didn't spoil anything, I feel sorry for you.
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Old 28.08.2020, 14:31
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Your post was ridiculous, as this one too. It didn't spoil anything, I feel sorry for you.
Haha, the only other person to feel sorry for me was the women who became my wife, the first time she saw me after 37 years! She has never felt sorry for me since
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Old 28.08.2020, 15:26
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Old 28.08.2020, 16:46
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Intelligence is not necessarily high IQ. And anyway, IQ from a certain point is overrated. Nice to have, but without other traits it won't help you a lot.

A trade might be a good career, it depends on the trade. Much better than some useless degrees. A plumber might earn substantially more than someone with a social science degree and at the same time work less. Unfortunately this is not taught in school and most children don't have the chance to see it in their family. Instead they get the common and wrong advice - do what you like - resulting mostly in a useless trade or degree.
Oh absolutely. The best is to work in the industry while you are simultaneously independently researching it, it really motivates and makes one advance, enjoy it and feed the passion. Self improvement is not really a question of intellect either. Rather survival.

IQ has never been unchangeable trait, btw..We can get much dumber while smarter in some aspects, it moves in correspondance to training and need, really. Plus, potential is one thing, using it well another and not necessarily linking it to productivity.

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I never wrote that, you're making it up to suit your own agenda as usual, nice try
However I am happy to state that people without any money are unsuccessful.
I think my definition would be - they aren't successful if somebody else has to compensate for them. Which is often the case. People don't own up to their dependencies, especially not online.

I enjoy your tongue-in cheek stories, wish more people had similar self faith and guts.

Somebody really dear to me once said to me that "I'll only regret in life the things that I have not done.."
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Old 28.08.2020, 17:53
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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However I am happy to state that people without any money are unsuccessful.
Couldn't agree more. That Jesus fella was a total waster, Buddha too!
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