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Old 28.08.2020, 18:38
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I personally would like to see a tenth school year become mandatory in order to allow teenagers to mature a bit more before choosing a profession.
As far as I understood from a teacher friend, more and more kids choose to stay till the 9th grade in the sec school, some of them because they couldn't find a proper apprenticeship or berufsschule, quite a lot because they didn't/couldn't decide what they want to do next. Yes, I agree one or two more years would be helpful.
As a last resort, for anyone who thinks their children need more time or attention or a different atmosphere, teaching methods etc there's always the private sector. Quite a lot of good private schools (i.e. happy parents) I heard of. Not necessarily the very popular international ones, I mean either bilingual or in the local language.

For those set on the gymi path, it is important to pay attention to what happens before that point - 6th or 8th grade. Many parents have no idea how good or not-so-good in school their kids really are. I've noticed a lot of confusion and frustration among foreign parents because there's obviously little communication between them and the school/teachers. Don't know whose fault it is, however, they way they evaluate their own children might not be that accurate. It's always good to try to compensate at home, or find a private tutor, way before the exams are very close.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.08.2020 at 18:49.
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  #62  
Old 28.08.2020, 19:02
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Haha, the only other person to feel sorry for me was the women who became my wife, the first time she saw me after 37 years! She has never felt sorry for me since
Frankly I don't know what to do with this unsolicited piece of info....maybe just say - good for you. I guess each family has their ways. Thanks for sharing, whatevs.
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Old 28.08.2020, 19:32
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Agree on that. The whole discussion about Steve Jobs as an example of success is rather useless for many. Not everyone aspires to become something like him, and not because he wasn't successful (obviously he was, at least from some points of view) simply because many people don't think of money that much. Money is something that help us have comfort and security, not a goal in itself. And for many people having a degree or more degrees is a true measure of their success, who are we to tell them otherwise. Money come on a second place, they're not looking for the best payed jobs or to make more money and have their own business etc.
When 40 or 50% of people have degrees, merely having a degree is not exactly aiming high is it. I mean its decent goal for 15 year olds, but its hardly something to hold to your whole life.

It reminds me of those people who insist on putting Dr. infront of their name in places like LinkedIn, and correct others when they use Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss. I'm not saying it isn't an achievement - but move on!

Personally I'm setting myself financial goals for every decade of my life. Not because I want to be a loaaddddsssamoney type - I actually have a very modest existence. Just because I want to help my children out in life (tutoring, private schooling if the situation is appropriate, getting onto the housing ladder) and to be able to retire without worrying. I think that's actually pretty important for most people.
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  #64  
Old 28.08.2020, 20:06
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Personally I'm setting myself financial goals for every decade of my life. Not because I want to be a loaaddddsssamoney type - I actually have a very modest existence. Just because I want to help my children out in life (tutoring, private schooling if the situation is appropriate, getting onto the housing ladder) and to be able to retire without worrying. I think that's actually pretty important for most people.
Couldn't agree more. In terms of....numbers, it's all relative I guess. What you consider "modest" goals might be really big for some. And vice versa.
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Old 28.08.2020, 20:29
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I thought this was a sarcastic post, but I am not sure. Do you really believe this BS?.
What financially successful parents may do is game the system so that their offspring have an increased chance of repeating their own financial success.
"Intelligence" has very little to do with it.
I believe in genetics and evolution so yes I believe intelligent parents have intelligent kids. I don't see how that basic fact of life can be denied.

I also believe that pushy parents game the system as you have said. Those factors aren't mutually exclusive.
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  #66  
Old 28.08.2020, 21:38
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I also believe that pushy parents game the system as you have said. Those factors aren't mutually exclusive.
Pushy parents don't necessarily game the system, sometimes they simply compensate for the system... Anyways, I think we all see our kids as being intelligent and ready for whatever challenge lies ahead of them...

Last edited by greenmount; 28.08.2020 at 21:59.
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  #67  
Old 28.08.2020, 22:02
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Pushy parents don't necessarily game the system, sometimes they simply compensate for the system... Anyways, I think we all see our kids as being intelligent and ready for whatever challenge lies ahead of them...
At the moment I'm trying to get mine to stop eating her books.
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  #68  
Old 28.08.2020, 22:23
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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The Swiss don't think that getting a degree in event management from the University of Upper Tooting in London is all that great.
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While I agree that not everyone has to go to university and there is more to life than a degree, I can't help but think that what allowed me to leave my country and work abroad was exactly this: Having a degree in an area where there is a high demand. As an immigrant I am never sure if I or my children will forever live in Switzerland.
Actually my worry is kinda the opposite.

When I first started living in Switzerland around 20 years ago, my employer, a financial services company, was full of Swiss managers and senior managers who did not have university degrees, but who did apprenticeships. One of them even did it in a post office. The normal recruitment and personnel development process was simple - hire plenty of young apprentices and hope some of them will stay for the long run.

Now, especially since the EU bilateral agreement, we have been flooded by foreign graduates. They now make up the majority of the management team, and because, like 99% of auslanders here, they don't understand the local education system, they will only hire graduates.

So I worry about my kids. Many foreigners with suspect university degrees will be chosen over the local apprentices simply because hiring managers would only hire university graduates. If in Switzerland only about 20% of the population will have a chance to go to University, and in some other countries something like 50% can get whatever university degree, then my kids will find it very difficult to compete for jobs no matter what they say here about universities not being the only good option...

One only has to look at job ads - they used to say "graduate diploma or relevant apprenticeships ", now it only says "graduate degree"
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  #69  
Old 29.08.2020, 00:19
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Actually my worry is kinda the opposite.
I think they'll still prefer Swiss diplomas over foreign ones but I might be wrong. Plus what about speaking the local language(s), that will seriously limit the "unfair" competition to a few neighbouring countries. Maybe that's enough and we should start worrying right now...but I don't think so. I have already thought about it too. I think they'll adjust the system when and if they'll see fit. There's already a new gymnasium in canton ZH (not sure if it's already finished, but just to give an example), to me it shows these issues are taken into consideration where it counts.

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In my sons class out of 20 children, 4 went to Gymnasium and all Auslšnders.

I guess the locals too busy learning about Cow bells.
It's interesting you regard them as being busy with the cow bells, maybe some of them really are, but the rest simply choose a different path. I don't make this distinction between kids, local kids could face the same issues as "Auslanders". Try to talk more with local parents, you'd be surprised. It's quite refreshing if you ask me. Now I know many people on EF earn a lot more than the Swiss average (or their spouses do) but that is just a temporary advantage imo.

Last edited by greenmount; 29.08.2020 at 00:44.
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Old 29.08.2020, 07:28
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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I believe in genetics and evolution so yes I believe intelligent parents have intelligent kids. I don't see how that basic fact of life can be denied.

I also believe that pushy parents game the system as you have said. Those factors aren't mutually exclusive.
"Intelligence" is largely inherited, but not totally
Higher "Intelligence " does not necessarily lead to increased survival, depending on the environment,
Evidence - the range of human IQ's

I read somewhere ( I have tried subsequently to re-find this study but google swamps me with studies showing better qualified parents have better qualified kids) that a study had found that in the families surveyed, 40% of people did not reach the academic qualification level of their parents even though academic achievement of parents still correlated with child achievement.

I am sure that 40% figure is highly variable, but that it is quite large seems to me to be a good thing and maybe something pushy parents should consider.
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Old 29.08.2020, 07:52
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

Nobody here goes to gymnasium, as we don't have them.

Tom
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  #72  
Old 29.08.2020, 15:54
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Agree on that. The whole discussion about Steve Jobs as an example of success is rather useless for many. Not everyone aspires to become something like him, and not because he wasn't successful (obviously he was, at least from some points of view) simply because many people don't think of money that much. Money is something that help us have comfort and security, not a goal in itself. And for many people having a degree or more degrees is a true measure of their success, who are we to tell them otherwise. Money come on a second place, they're not looking for the best payed jobs or to make more money and have their own business etc.
Yes, they're not useful in the sense that they're in reach. Nonetheless I'm pretty sure money isn't the aim for Jobs, Bezos, etc either. It's about creating, shaping the world (one aspect thereof), and leaving a lasting footprint.

Those who aim to make as much money as possible will chose the financial industry instead.
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:09
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Those who aim to make as much money as possible will chose the financial industry instead.

True, and instead of lasting footprints, leave large holes in other people's pockets
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:46
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Now, especially since the EU bilateral agreement, we have been flooded by foreign graduates. They now make up the majority of the management team, and because, like 99% of auslanders here, they don't understand the local education system, they will only hire graduates.

One only has to look at job ads - they used to say "graduate diploma or relevant apprenticeships ", now it only says "graduate degree"

A good example of the Swiss undermining themselves. While the country has certainly been nudged in the right direction previously by attracting exceptional foreign pioneers, especially regarding initial industrialisation, I doubt that importing current HR specialists will go down as a similar success story.
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:46
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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True, and instead of lasting footprints, leave large holes in other people's pockets
Talk about blaming others for the consequences of your own free choices and decisions. Nobody forces you to by an iPhone, or any other i-xyz product.
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:50
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Talk about blaming others for the consequences of your own free choices and decisions. Nobody forces you to by an iPhone, or any other i-xyz product.
You've got the wrong end of the stick again. LtSoftDrink was not referring to Apple products, but to the "financial industry".
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:50
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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"Intelligence" is largely inherited, but not totally
Higher "Intelligence " does not necessarily lead to increased survival, depending on the environment,
Evidence - the range of human IQ's
Define intelligence, and what parts thereof you believe to be inheritable.

IQ test score is not a measurement of intelligence, just a (relatively narrow) part of it. The IQ score of the typical western population has risen by 2-3 points per decade over the last century. The IQ range of 90-110 is usually considered "normal", IIRC it encompasses ~60% of the population. Basically everybody in that range today would have easily qualified for university a century ago (based IQ score alone), most with a somewhat higher score today would have been close to the genius range or in it. Such an increase over such a short time is definitely not biologically caused.
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:53
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Basically everybody in that range today would have easily qualified for university a century ago (based IQ score alone), many would have been close to the genius range or in it.
Please provide a source for this assertion. I think it's nonsense. What information do you have on IQ scores a century ago?
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:54
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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You've got the wrong end of the stick again. LtSoftDrink was not referring to Apple products, but to the "financial industry".
You're right, I got that part wrong.

Still, however much you're getting fleeced (or not) is a consequence of your own free choice.
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:57
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Re: Does %of kids going to gymnasium indicate the quality of schools/village ?

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Please provide a source for this assertion. I think it's nonsense. What information do you have on IQ scores a century ago?
IQ tests are over 100 years old, so data will exist.
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