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Old 09.09.2020, 11:43
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help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

I don't speak French but my partner had a chat with CGI a few years back and they claimed that usually water charges are included in the rent price unless stipulated in the contract and we didn't think much about it. fast forward to today I was translating the contract online and came up with this section that I believe stipulates water charges are not included in the rental price. Am I wrong?

this is an old contract that has been still in use today. we are working out new charges with the tenants. We never charged for water consumption but I am wondering if we did it wrong.

thank you for the help.



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Old 09.09.2020, 11:48
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

this is the translation I get from DeepL

"u) bear, where these services exist, the costs resulting from its consumption of water, gas, electricity, as well as the subscription and telephone, radio and television taxes and pay all the related slips of the services concerned which will be presented to it, including the contractual minimums. "
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Old 09.09.2020, 12:12
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

In the first picture it says that heating & hot water are not included
Going on to reserve an amount for the heating.
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Old 09.09.2020, 12:54
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

The second I dont understand.
Obviously it is about extras such as tel, tv etc taken at her cost.

I understand that payment slips have to be presented.
Its the part of aquitter that throws me off.
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Old 09.09.2020, 13:13
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

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The second I dont understand.
Obviously it is about extras such as tel, tv etc taken at her cost.

I understand that payment slips have to be presented.
Its the part of aquitter that throws me off.
thanks for your reply. Do you reckon it has something to do with the landlord presenting the slips paid for the water?
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Old 09.09.2020, 13:28
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

I was thinking thay yes, but then the telephone is mentioned which again confuses me
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Old 09.09.2020, 13:52
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

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thanks for your reply. Do you reckon it has something to do with the landlord presenting the slips paid for the water?
It's normally included in the NK calculation.

Tom
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Old 09.09.2020, 14:00
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

You mentioned that it is an old contract still in use (must be very old since it doesnt mention Internet )

The first pic clearly states not included are hot water and heating (with approx cost)
So cold water (not very expensive) should be included in the rent.
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Old 09.09.2020, 14:15
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

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You mentioned that it is an old contract still in use (must be very old since it doesnt mention Internet )

The first pic clearly states not included are hot water and heating (with approx cost)
So cold water (not very expensive) should be included in the rent.
very old indeed. Perhaps is time to consider renewing the contract.

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It's normally included in the NK calculation.

Tom
thanks for the reply. I've not been using the cost of water consumption to calculate the running costs of the house. I only use the cost of oil and maintenance of chauffage / chimneys. I guess I've made a mistake.
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Old 09.09.2020, 14:17
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

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You mentioned that it is an old contract still in use (must be very old since it doesnt mention Internet )

The first pic clearly states not included are hot water and heating (with approx cost)
So cold water (not very expensive) should be included in the rent.
Sorry still cant edit my posts (new member), extra charges most likley water aswell should be included in what Tom says NK here called charges.

Ask the current tenant how high those are and you should be all set.
No other extras should be invoiced except for parking which here is often billed extra.

In french you want to ask them the following -
Quel est le montant de frais mensuels?
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Old 09.09.2020, 14:35
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

What are permissible and inadmissible monthly costs?

Landlords are only allowed to charge additional costs that are legally permissible. These are fees for heating, water, hot water and sewage, rubbish, caretaker, stairwell cleaning, snow removal, garden maintenance, lift, general electricity (e.g. for stairwell or laundry room) as well as TV fees or security costs including maintenance and control work. Expenses for repairs, maintenance, renewals and replacement purchases are not lawful.

https://www.mieterschutz-heizkosten-...iAAEgJG2PD_BwE

Here in the french part ASLOCA
https://www.asloca.ch/geneve/actualites-2/
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Old 09.09.2020, 15:49
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

thanks for the links. I had also checked this one https://en.comparis.ch/immobilien/st...ietnebenkosten which I guess is adding to my misunderstand.
I just want to make sure I am not undercharging bills.


Quote:
Which services can my landlord include in the ancillary cost bill?
Ancillary costs are charged for services related to the usage of the rented property. These can include heating, hot and cold water, caretaker service, electricity, lift, cable TV/radio subscription, sewage, domestic refuse collection and a flat administration fee of around 3 per cent.

Which ancillary costs do not need to be stated explicitly in the agreement?
Boiler servicing and chimney sweeping costs are considered part of heating costs and do not need to be mentioned separately in the tenancy agreement. It is sufficient for heating costs to be listed as ancillary costs in the agreement. The same applies to boiler descaling. This is included if hot water costs are listed as ancillary costs. Other costs not stipulated in the agreement are those billed directly by an agency or cable network provider, and these must be paid by the tenant.
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Old 09.09.2020, 15:57
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

Wait, did I misunderstand & you are the property owner wanting to work out the extras with the current tenants?
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Old 09.09.2020, 15:59
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

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Wait, did I misunderstand & you are the property owner wanting to work out the extras with the current tenants?
yes, we are the property owner and we are currently working out to update the charges at the tenant request.
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Old 09.09.2020, 16:07
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

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yes, we are the property owner and we are currently working out to update the charges at the tenant request.
LOL ok..sorry about the missunderstanding.

In the thread you have the list of which items you are entiteld to include in the monthly charge. Water beeing one of them.

But to avoid any mistakes maybe you should recontact the CGI for guidance.
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Old 09.09.2020, 16:12
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

ha! no worries... my original message wasn't super clear.

We had some bad advice from CGI in the past so we feel a little 'put off' by them, they made us feel like walking on eggshells when dealing with a Swiss tenants but I will give them another try.
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Old 09.09.2020, 16:21
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

Have you thought about contracting an agency?
I dont know the cost, but they manage all including the communication with your tenants.

No need to feel like you have to walk on eggshells. Afterall you contact them because you want to get things right.
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Old 10.09.2020, 13:54
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

the tenants weren't keen on us getting an agency when I raised the idea a few years ago.
it's complicated, unfortunately.
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Old 10.09.2020, 14:02
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

Maybe just outsourcing the invoicing could be an option.
You would still be the go to person when a stove needs replacing etc but wouldnt have the headache of the financials.
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Old 10.09.2020, 14:08
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Re: help me understand if water charges is included in this contract. please

that's a great idea. thanks.
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