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  #21  
Old 16.09.2020, 23:12
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

The apartment is in pretty good conditions, only the floor is slightly scratched in some areas (really superficial scratches). Also, it is not perfectly clean because I am the only one cleaning and don’t have a lot of time, but since it will be professionally cleaned this should not be a problem. What I think is that she is mainly trying to buy furniture through my insurance, because every day she has a new problem: Yesterday she became allergic to dogs, today she said that in these months she found vomit sometimes on the carpet and didn’t tell me (She never backs down when it comes to complain...) but now she wants a new one.

I have a legal insurance which can support me, but I don’t know what exactly ask to them since what she is asking sounds to me completely absurd.
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  #22  
Old 16.09.2020, 23:32
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

The main issue to clear up is did she add you as an equal co-inhabitant / joint-main-tenant to the contract, where probably you're both responsible for any costs including rent and final clean, or are you in fact a *sub*-renter whereby you'll only be liable for costs according to the contract between you and her e.g. cleaning of sofa? If no such written contract exists then one could be implied but it wouldn't have such specifics as sofa cleaning.


It could be that the agency deems you as co-inhabitant, she pays the rent for you both and then you pay her your 'share'. In your mind, you're very much a sub-tenant and it wouldn't be reasonable to ask you to pay for final clean (unless specified in a contract).



That she asks you to pay for her sofas is rediculous. Maybe she thinks your insurance will pay, if you have one.


Otherwise sounds like she's taking you for a ride. Just because she says "I'm a lawyer" doesn't mean she is - she might have just read some englishforum posts ;-) .


If it were me, I'd do like you have done and make amends for any uncleanliness that you caused and leave it at that, i.e. not pay for any thing which is the responsibility of the person who actually rents the apartment (her)
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  #23  
Old 16.09.2020, 23:41
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

I've seen some other posts now. You should follow what's in your sublease agreement, if it's reasonable. Don't feel 'run-over'. You do what you think is right and she can write to you with any problems or requests she has. If you have legal insurance then you can give the contract and her demands to them.
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  #24  
Old 16.09.2020, 23:49
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

She is actually a lawyer, I’m really sure that she is sincere about this at least My contract is an untermietvetrag in this form: https://www.mieterverband.ch/dam/jcr...ietvertrag.pdf , so I think I am legally a subrenter, and both her and the agency itself told me that my only relationship is with the main tenant, not the agency. I think it is fair paying for a cleaning (The professional one will be covered by my insurance so...) and clean her furniture carefully, so that she will not be affected by her brand new allergy when she sits on her broken sofa in her new apartment During this “final protocol” I don’t know what she planned, maybe something to sign (?), that’s why I asked how to behave for it. In any case, thanks a lot for your support guys! I really appreciate!
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  #25  
Old 17.09.2020, 11:14
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

You are already paying your part for the cleaning, be aware that the real final inspection is between the agency and the main tenant, hence it has nothing to do with you neither do you need to be present.

Most cleaning companies have a clause in the contract that they will come back at no cost in case the agency is not happy with the cleaning.

You need to make sure that you leave your room in a good & clean state.
Thats your responsebility.

Accept nothing else, unless you know that you have broken something.
Most important, stand your ground, dont let her scare you & sign nothing that you do not understand and are not comfortable with.
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Old 17.09.2020, 11:42
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

I agree with the advice given, it's her that is responsible not you. My first question, is she really a lawyer? I have a feeling from what you've written she is not.

Take photo's when you leave of the state of your room.

At the moment she is trying to bully you into submission. To claim you are a lawyer if you're not is illegal. If she is and has been acting in an unprofessional way (which is it what it seems) tell her you're reporting her to the Swiss Bar Association. She will not like this. In other words turn the table round to your favour.

Also, pay nothing, and if she demands more money then dispute it and tell her you will pay what you believe you owe to the conciliation office. This will probably shake her cage as if it comes out she made false claims, or acted unprofessionally, this can damage her career and / or prejudice any evidence she gives. Also let your insurer know what you're doing before they pay out and copy her on your correspondence.

I look forward to hearing the conclusion to this!
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  #27  
Old 17.09.2020, 12:14
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

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The main issue to clear up is did she add you as an equal co-inhabitant / joint-main-tenant to the contract, where probably you're both responsible for any costs including rent and final clean,
Te original main tenant can not simply add another tenant to the lease. It would also be hugely impractical. All tenants named on the main contract have the same rights, obligations, and bear a joint liability. To get one tenant from the main contract all involved parties must agree, including landlord. Cancellation from the tenants side is only possible if all tenants agree (or by court order). Cancellation from the landlord must be sent to each tenant individually.

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or are you in fact a *sub*-renter whereby you'll only be liable for costs according to the contract between you and her e.g. cleaning of sofa? If no such written contract exists then one could be implied but it wouldn't have such specifics as sofa cleaning.
For anything not stated or handled by contract the default from the Swiss Code of Obligations applies. A sub-lease is governed by the general lease conditions. Regarding condition at return of the object Art. 267 Abs. 1 Code of Obligations is relevant:
"At the end of the lease, the tenant or lessee must return the object in a condition that accords with its contractually designated use."

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That she asks you to pay for her sofas is rediculous. Maybe she thinks your insurance will pay, if you have one.
Depends on if the condition of the sofa is in a state which is in accord with its contractually designated use.

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It could be that the agency deems you as co-inhabitant, she pays the rent for you both and then you pay her your 'share'. In your mind, you're very much a sub-tenant and it wouldn't be reasonable to ask you to pay for final clean (unless specified in a contract).
Co-inhabitant and sub-tenant are legally the same: An agreement between the main tenant and an other person living their which is not the main tenant. Note: Spouses and registered partners living at the same rental place are considered co-tenants even if only one is named on the contract.


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Otherwise sounds like she's taking you for a ride.
Totally. Certainly. Nevertheless on should know the basic end of lease obligations as a sub-tenant.

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My contract is an untermietvetrag in this form: https://www.mieterverband.ch/dam/jcr...ietvertrag.pdf
I assume "die Ganze Wohnung" has not been ticked. Strange if it were, and bad if it is.

The above sub-tenancy contract refers to the side agreements and clauses of the main rental contract, which you, according the above contract are aware of. The clauses of main contract also apply to the sub-contract.

Normally, a usual main rental contracts defines that the property must be handed back in "thorough cleaned" condition. If it does not state so it has to be "broom clean" only.

You will have to clean and bear the repair costs (unless it was damaged when you moved in) for anything for which you have the exclusive rights of use listed under "Teile der Wohnung".

You do not have to bear the cleaning or repair (unless you actually caused the damage) of anything which you do not have any rights of use. (The rooms neither listed in "Teile der Wohnung" nor "inkl. Mitbenützung").

Cleaning of the rooms listed under "inkl. Mitbenützung" is the hot topic. She has been there for many years, you only a short time. You seem to clean them and she does not so much. So who has to bear what share of the end of tenancy cleaning?
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  #28  
Old 17.09.2020, 12:28
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Re: How to overcome my problems with the main tenant in a sublease

She asked me (written) to cancel the cleaning that I planned for the 29th of september, because she contracted a professional one for the 30th that I am also paying (Because my legal insurance decided to “finance” it). Then, I think that cleaning should not be a problem anymore. I will clean anyway the apartment on my own and the sofás with the help of a cleaning lady.

Yes, she is actually a lawyer studying for a PhD and I have proofs of this, so this is not a lie. Maybe she just wanna renew her furniture at my expenses, glad to know that she has no right to do this
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