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Old 14.09.2020, 20:44
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Next action on multiple remainders

Hi all,

i wanted just to seek your help in dealing with the following: Me and my GF (now 7 months pregnant) moved into the current apt on Nov 18. We paid the first rent in October by cash and i have the receipt of the payment. Since then we paid always on the 27th of each month without any complain from the regie.

In the middle of the lock down the regie changed, i paid until i have received the letter with the new wire details on the old one. I updated the wiring details and i kept paying always on the same day.

A couple of months ago they started to send us remainders to pay the rent (which we did on time every single month). I sent multiple emails to them with a breakdown of all the wire transfers (the first rent paid in cash was referred to November 2018 so i presumed that the payment on the 27 November would be referred to December and so on).

They don't reply, they keep saying over the phone that i missed payments but it just looks like they are not doing anything. I spoke with the previous regie which said they should refrain from sending these remainders warning a termination of the contract until they reconcile their records with the ones provided by the old regie.

This is creating anxiety and honestly i'm thinking of seeking legal help on this.

What do you think i should do and did i do anything wrong? I actually think the rent was to be paid each month by the 5th day but as i was effectively paying it 2/3 days prior to the end of the previous month i would be covered.
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Old 14.09.2020, 21:13
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

How do they invoice your montly rent?

I would make copies of all payments plus their reminders and send to them by registered post. Include a letter asking them to kindly stop.

At the same time I would join Asloca www.asloca.ch in case things do no get better.
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Old 14.09.2020, 21:20
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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How do they invoice your montly rent?

I would make copies of all payments plus their reminders and send to them by registered post. Include a letter asking them to kindly stop.

At the same time I would join Asloca www.asloca.ch in case things do no get better.
i have setup a permanent wire transfer. It worked with the previous regie and is working now otherwise i would not have only one or two missing payments.

I already joined asloca, but i have the feeling they will not follow you like a proper legal.

By the way, could i counter attack on this asking for some money back? It's been months that they are creating anxiety to both me and my gf, plus some reparations are still outstanding since 4 months.
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Old 14.09.2020, 21:32
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

Have you contacted Asloca or why do you think you will not recieve proper support?

As long as you pay your rent on time there is no need to loose any sleep over it.
Just send your regie a registered letter kindly asking them to stop at the same time remind them over the outstanding repairs.

I dont think its realistic to ask for damages..
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Old 14.09.2020, 21:49
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

The months they claim are missing are they the ones immediately between old and new regie (I don't really know what regie means) Maybe you continued to pay the old one where you should have paid the new one already and the old one has your money. The switch should have been when there was a formal notice of change, not necessarily only when you got the bank details.
Get them to put their version of events in writing.
I agree paying towards the end of the month is like paying the next month early (it's what I do) but maybe there has been a misunderstanding there.



You could be entitled to damages for some non-repairs but it depends on what it is.
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Old 15.09.2020, 08:05
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

To be able to receive damages’ you need to have actually suffered damages. Irritation is not being damaged.

And there is no concept of punitive damages in Swiss jurisprudence.

Send them the registered letter.
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Old 15.09.2020, 08:33
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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I already joined asloca, but i have the feeling they will not follow you like a proper legal.
If you don't think they're any good, then I suggest you cancel and perhaps get legal insurance instead.

But why do you have this "feeling"? Have you actually talked with them?
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Old 15.09.2020, 08:44
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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i have setup a permanent wire transfer. It worked with the previous regie and is working now otherwise i would not have only one or two missing payments.

I already joined asloca, but i have the feeling they will not follow you like a proper legal.

By the way, could i counter attack on this asking for some money back? It's been months that they are creating anxiety to both me and my gf, plus some reparations are still outstanding since 4 months.
What is a "wire transfer"? Are you sending money from abroad? Or do you really a standing order from a Swiss bank??
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Old 16.09.2020, 06:49
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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If you don't think they're any good, then I suggest you cancel and perhaps get legal insurance instead.

But why do you have this "feeling"? Have you actually talked with them?
Yes i did but it looked like they had something more important to do.

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What is a "wire transfer"? Are you sending money from abroad? Or do you really a standing order from a Swiss bank??
I'm sending money from CH, UBS in particular.

Today i should receive a call from the regie, or at least this is what they said.
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Old 16.09.2020, 06:59
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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Hi all,

i wanted just to seek your help in dealing with the following: Me and my GF (now 7 months pregnant) moved into the current apt on Nov 18. We paid the first rent in October by cash and i have the receipt of the payment. Since then we paid always on the 27th of each month without any complain from the regie.

In the middle of the lock down the regie changed, i paid until i have received the letter with the new wire details on the old one. I updated the wiring details and i kept paying always on the same day.

A couple of months ago they started to send us remainders to pay the rent (which we did on time every single month). I sent multiple emails to them with a breakdown of all the wire transfers (the first rent paid in cash was referred to November 2018 so i presumed that the payment on the 27 November would be referred to December and so on).

They don't reply, they keep saying over the phone that i missed payments but it just looks like they are not doing anything. I spoke with the previous regie which said they should refrain from sending these remainders warning a termination of the contract until they reconcile their records with the ones provided by the old regie.

This is creating anxiety and honestly i'm thinking of seeking legal help on this.

What do you think i should do and did i do anything wrong? I actually think the rent was to be paid each month by the 5th day but as i was effectively paying it 2/3 days prior to the end of the previous month i would be covered.
Are you sure you are sending the new payments to the correct account number and for the correct amounts? If you are and have sent this evidence then don't see how there is any confusion from the new reggie here, especially if you provide them with evidence of payments.

Also generally you should always pay before the beginning of the new month... so set the payment transfer date to the 25th or 26th and set it to always "initiate before a weekend". This will avoid any late payment flags.
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Old 16.09.2020, 07:19
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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Are you sure you are sending the new payments to the correct account number and for the correct amounts? If you are and have sent this evidence then don't see how there is any confusion from the new reggie here, especially if you provide them with evidence of payments.

Also generally you should always pay before the beginning of the new month... so set the payment transfer date to the 25th or 26th and set it to always "initiate before a weekend". This will avoid any late payment flags.
I'm sure i sent to the correct address. They are missing the May payment (which i made to the old regie as the landlord changed in June ) and each time that i speak to them they are missing the current one (in August they told me the July rent was missing, in July the June one).

I paid according to the following, never skipped any payment. I paid as well in August i just did not download the list of payments from UBS in the last month.

Payment Date
28.07.2020
26.06.2020
28.05.2020
28.04.2020
27.03.2020
28.02.2020
28.01.2020
27.12.2019
28.11.2019
28.10.2019
27.09.2019
28.08.2019
26.07.2019
28.06.2019
28.05.2019
26.04.2019
28.03.2019
28.02.2019
28.01.2019
28.12.2018
30.11.2018

The evidence of payment provided is a download of an excel from UBS with the ID of every single transaction and the scan copy of the receipt of the first payment.
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Old 16.09.2020, 07:29
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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I'm sure i sent to the correct address. They are missing the May payment (which i made to the old regie as the landlord changed in June )
If you made this payment incorrectly then you need to get a refund of this from the old reggie and pay the new one.

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and each time that i speak to them they are missing the current one (in August they told me the July rent was missing, in July the June one).
Then that is likely an issue with the PAYMENT DATE as I wrote... your payment hits them later than it should and the notification is automatically generated and a letter sent out.

Last edited by Chuff; 16.09.2020 at 08:09.
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Old 16.09.2020, 07:40
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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Then that is likely an issue with the PAYMENT DATE as I wrote... your payment hits them later than it should and the notification is automatically generated and a letter sent out.

.
I don’t think it is actually an issue with the payment date at all, none of those payments would have arrived late.
The problem in my opinion is the May payment. If it was sent to the old régie and was never forwarded to the new one then according to the new régie he is always one month in arrears.
OP you need to sort out what happened to the May payment. If necessary you will have to pay the new régie and claim it back from the old one.
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Old 16.09.2020, 07:46
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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I don’t think it is actually an issue with the payment date at all, none of those payments would have arrived late.
The problem in my opinion is the May payment. If it was sent to the old régie and was never forwarded to the new one then according to the new régie he is always one month in arrears.
OP you need to sort out what happened to the May payment. If necessary you will have to pay the new régie and claim it back from the old one.
The old regie said they received the payment. The problem is the lack of communication between the two.

It is not my case, but what if somebody cannot afford to pay a double rent for one month and wait months to get reimbursed? It doesn't look fair to me once you can prove you paid according to the schedule.

We are still awaiting some reparations from the new regie since June. Asloca advised to send a registered letter saying we will stop to pay the rent if the reparations are not done.
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Old 16.09.2020, 07:58
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

The rent arrears and the repairs are two separate issues.

The advice from asloca is the standard solution for problems like that. You send a registered letter giving them a deadline for completing the repairs and if the work is not done by then you will be paying the rent into a special account until such time as the work is done. Asloca will usually write the letter for you so that it is legally correct.

As for the rent I think you have the following options:

1. You ask the old regie to forward the May payment to the new regie. Send them a registered letter and give them a deadline for making the transfer.
2. You pay the missing month to the new regie and claim the money back from the old one.
3. You do nothing and wait for them to sort it out themselves. I don’t recommend this option.

It sucks but that’s the way it is here. I guess people who don’t have the means to cover the double rent, even temporarily, end up with debt notices.
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Old 16.09.2020, 10:15
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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The old regie said they received the payment. The problem is the lack of communication between the two.

It is not my case, but what if somebody cannot afford to pay a double rent for one month and wait months to get reimbursed? It doesn't look fair to me once you can prove you paid according to the schedule.

We are still awaiting some reparations from the new regie since June. Asloca advised to send a registered letter saying we will stop to pay the rent if the reparations are not done.
It's a bit confusing, but it seems from what you say the old regie did not pass the rent one to the new one? First do a reconciliation with the new regie. Ask them for a statement as to when they received your payment. You can then match this up and see exactly where the missing payment is.

Next, if it show the missing payment is the one you sent to the old regie, contact them to do the same. If it shows they have not passed your payment on then a send them a registered letter with a copy to the new regie.

The fact is, if you have paid correctly, and can prove you have done so, then if they take it further you can prove your case. It's not actually up to you to get the missing payment forwarded, it's up to the owner of the building through their agent to do so. In fact you have no right to ask for the payment to be refunded, only the landlord can do this. The exception is if you have made a double payment by mistake - which it seems you have not done.

Next, and this is an absolute NO NO! Do not withhold your rent for repairs to be carried out. This is a big mark against you if you do. Raise a dispute and inform the agent you are paying the rent to the rent reconciliation office. I'm not sure the term in German. The parties are then summoned and the judge will rule on what should happen. If you lose you pay the costs and if they lose they pay.

If either side is unhappy it can still go to court, but 99% of all cases are settled this way and at minimum cost. No lawyers are needed.
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Old 16.09.2020, 10:32
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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We are still awaiting some reparations from the new regie since June. Asloca advised to send a registered letter saying we will stop to pay the rent if the reparations are not done.
The wording here is really, really important. As LuganoPirate said you cannot simply withhold the rent. There is a formal process which must be followed to the detail, including the correct wording in the letter to the landlord.

I am sure ASLOCA gave you a sample letter which has the right wording. In there you state that you will pay part of the rent into an escrow account with the local rental court if the problem has not been resolved by a specific set date. Once you are in the position to actually withheld part of the rent you must contact the rental court to get the details of the special escrow account and then you must pay the part of the rent you intend to with held into that special account.
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Old 16.09.2020, 10:43
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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The wording here is really, really important. As LuganoPirate said you cannot simply withhold the rent. There is a formal process which must be followed to the detail, including the correct wording in the letter to the landlord.

I am sure ASLOCA gave you a sample letter which has the right wording. In there you state that you will pay part of the rent into an escrow account with the local rental court if the problem has not been resolved by a specific set date. Once you are in the position to actually withheld part of the rent you must contact the rental court to get the details of the special escrow account and then you must pay the part of the rent you intend to with held into that special account.
Just to add to @aSwissInTheUS's reply, it is also vital to make the payment to the escrow account on or before the date it is due. You cannot be even a day late with this one!
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:07
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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I'm sure i sent to the correct address. They are missing the May payment (which i made to the old regie as the landlord changed in June ) and each time that i speak to them they are missing the current one (in August they told me the July rent was missing, in July the June one).

Sounds like when you paid for June, they backdated it to the missing May payment, then the same for July (backdated to June) etc,
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Old 17.09.2020, 13:03
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Re: Next action on multiple remainders

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The old regie said they received the payment. The problem is the lack of communication between the two.

It is not my case, but what if somebody cannot afford to pay a double rent for one month and wait months to get reimbursed? It doesn't look fair to me once you can prove you paid according to the schedule.
It has nothing to do with fairness. You seem to have paid the rent to the wrong person/entity, which means that the new regie is right with their view (though perhaps a bit anal). By not paying to the corret recipient (your misktake, nobody else's, assuming you've been informed on time) you risk for the contract to get canceled by the new regie.

Pay the one or two months you're behind to the new regie, and have the old regie return to you what you don't owe them but paid anyway. If the latter isn't possible, e.g. because the books are frozen for takeover by the new regie, then you'll simply have to wait to be paid back.
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