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Old 16.09.2020, 06:40
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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yarpen--Can you briefly elaborate on the "...in a few weeks another referendum will be held on making these restrictions even tighter." ?

Obviously the immigration regulations present a barrier for us. The question is how insurmountable? --and how much worse is it getting? I gather that it varies by canton and there also appears to be discretion. How the heck would we investigate that? Do we just start floating inquiries to the local authorities?
See this, though the polls suggest it won't be passed.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/why-swi...ation/45931930

And yes, you just start enquiring at the relevant cantonal migration offices. There's a link to get to their addresses in my earlier post.
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Old 16.09.2020, 08:22
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

I don't know a single American here who has come on their whim. Everyone has either had a company to sponsor them, a dual citizenship or are part of a relationship with a Swiss or a European.

It's fine to dream but I seriously don't see how it can become a reality.

Olygirl - the party pooper
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  #23  
Old 16.09.2020, 08:50
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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I don't know a single American here who has come on their whim. Everyone has either had a company to sponsor them, a dual citizenship or are part of a relationship with a Swiss or a European.

It's fine to dream but I seriously don't see how it can become a reality.

Olygirl - the party pooper
Tina Turner.
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Old 16.09.2020, 08:56
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Tina Turner.
Isn't Erwin Bach German?
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Old 16.09.2020, 08:58
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Isn't Erwin Bach German?
Oh c'mon, she would have managed without his pass.

There are rich people and....rich people. And certain personalities will never have a problem to settle wherever they wish.
Even Depardieu would agree.
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Old 16.09.2020, 09:36
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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My wife and I are 65-year-olds hoping to escape the U.S. for retirement to a, ahem, more civilized area
Not sure what you meant here - the way you phrased it suggests, to me at least, that if you had been more clear, you may have got a bit of flack.

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We have lived in rural areas for most of our lives so would be looking at same in Switzerland. We now live on ~ 5 ha in western Colorado in a broad mountain valley next to my family's 40 ha of organic orchards. If we moved, we would just want a decent house and maybe only enough land to have a large garden, but in a quiet and relatively rural area (amidst farms?).

My research indicates the cheapest cantons that might fit the hiking/biking/skiing desires are Uri, Glarus, and Obwalden. I just can't find much on prices for houses and exactly how the land ownership and "zoning" works there. We could perhaps go as high as 500,000 CHF for small plot and house. Is it reasonable to find something in that range that fits our needs?
I can't tell whether you are thinking of U.S. terms when considering the size of a house, or European terms.
500,000 CHF really isn't going to get you much at all in the way of a single house, even in the cheapest place. Someone else on the forum, in another thread, is looking for cheap places more remote than you are considering and some of them don't even have car parking at the property, let alone garaging (which is pretty standard in the U.S.).

As others have recommended, I'd come over for a month or so (once COVID-19 is more under-control) and see some of Switzerland (you didn't say whether you had even been here once).
Perhaps make a holiday out of it and for contrast, visit some of the other European countries for pure enjoyment too.
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Old 16.09.2020, 10:00
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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I don't know a single American here who has come on their whim.
I know several.

Tom
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  #28  
Old 16.09.2020, 10:40
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

I'd suggest you look at other parts of the USA. If you're set on coming to Europe, you might also consider other countries such as Portugal.
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  #29  
Old 16.09.2020, 10:55
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Do you really live in the Aargau?

OP: What makes you want to move here over Germany or Austria? You'd get a lot more for your money there. If you can only afford 500k then the cost of everyday living might be pretty daunting. 500k is tbh a tiny budget here and would get you a small (1 bed) apartment in my village, which is hardly an urban centre. Looking for a large amount of land on that tiny is ambitious. Something would have to be wrong with the house.

Groceries are double or triple the price in the US. Here is good for high salaries and low taxes - which as a retired person and as an American you wouldn't benefit from.

Honestly it wouldn't be my pick for a place to retire to.
Yes, Aargau

I'll second the opinion of Hick of looking for mountains and snow at regions with lower costs. The Pyrinees between Spain and France have more snow than some ski resorts in Switzerland, Haute Savoie in France is also the Alps and rules are followed if that matters. My German open-minded colleagues go to ski in South Tyrol because they love Italy, I always joke that they just want to keep speaking German on their vacations. Lot's of choices.

@Entrada, back to Switzerland. Ever considered running a Bed and Breakfast? Maybe that's the key for CH. Federal authorities will asses the residence request with different criteria, people in the municipality you arrive will be a bit more welcoming because a local business will stay alive, you'll have something that will integrate you willingly or not, some extra income. When these properties go for sale it's because the current owner cannot operate them anymore. Someone takes over or the business simply dies, that's why neighbors are a bit more open to a new person coming to live there. Buy prices are not much higher than pure residential property because fixed costs are higher.

Entrada, one little topic others have not mentioned yet but relevant to rural life in Switzerland. What do you think about alcohol? Is it Satan's weapon of mass destruction? Or, a couple glasses of wine before Sunday mass help to make people more appreciative of God's blessings? I'm exaggerating a bit, but life here is closer to the second situation.
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Old 16.09.2020, 11:13
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

Bed and breakfast high in the mountains, 750k

https://www.fuchsimmobilien.ch/objek...asthaus-sonne/
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  #31  
Old 16.09.2020, 11:14
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

If you are looking for LESS conservative than Colorado, Switzerland is really not for you, especially in the rural German part. Try Vaud or Neuchâtel, but you’ll be able to afford an apartment only ... I really suggest looking at other European countries. France is rather liberal and has nice skiing and such, plus you would probably be able to buy a house and garden.

How is your German? You will have to reach a certain level to get allowed to stay, and in the rural areas it can be a bit hit and miss as to whether or not foreigners will be accepted and welcomed by the locals.
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Old 16.09.2020, 11:14
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Bed and breakfast high in the mountains, 750k

https://www.fuchsimmobilien.ch/objek...asthaus-sonne/

Maybe higher? https://www.sebuyo.com/en/properties...ain-village-84
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  #33  
Old 16.09.2020, 11:16
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Bed and breakfast high in the mountains, 750k

https://www.fuchsimmobilien.ch/objek...asthaus-sonne/
There’s one for sale near me, nice 10,000 m2 piece of forest with it, for ... drumroll please ... 3 million francs in the middle of nowhere Canton Fribourg. We did look at a nice older farm up in the Préalpes for I think 600,000 francs, but it needed a loooooooot of renovation to be live-able.
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Old 16.09.2020, 11:31
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

Running B&B in a foreign country where everything is regulated and there are rules about everything, even about selling sausages in petrol stations after midnight? Next to a busy road? Perfect option for two retired Americans who want to spend their days whiling away their time hiking the mountains!!!
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Old 16.09.2020, 11:45
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Bed and breakfast high in the mountains, 750k
Is that for the whole week? Is the room en-suite?


Seems a bit expensive, even for Switzerland.
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  #36  
Old 16.09.2020, 11:47
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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What a great forum. All good points. Just to clarify--the 500k is what we figure we can spend for a house. We also have savings, pension, etc to live on that is probably at least double that and we aren't spendy people. But I appreciate the comments about cost of living--not a surprise and it is a big concern.
Also to clarify--we aren't looking for a large piece of land--it's just what we're used to. We do like to have a large garden and that would be enough. It's the surroundings that are just as important. My wife (and me to lesser extent) really values quiet. We're just used to not having a lot of activity around us.

Canada?--yes, that was high on our list. But somewhat ruled out for an odd reason. My wife is highly allergic to poison ivy, and our stays in Canada have been marred by that. I know it sounds trivial, but we really like to get out to hike and camp, and that's not so great when you have to avoid vegetation. I also think the climate in Switzerland is somewhat nicer--true? Both of us have lived at least a dozen years in Minnesota so we have some idea of what farther north is.
We are really optimizing for somewhere where we are comfortable with the politics and have available nordic skiing and mountain hiking. Our area of Colorado is wonderful, but is deeply in-your-face conservative. Climate change denial, science denial, guns on hip in Walmart, big expansions of oil drilling on public lands, etc. I don't want to start political discussions; it's just not us. Places that sound nice, like Portugal or Uruguay, don't have the winter sports. Maybe Germany or Austria. My sense is that Austria politics are more problematic.
My wife spent a couple of weeks in Kanderstag and thought it was nirvana. That's as a tourist, of course, but it highly colors our choices. Me?--I've been 100 yards into CH as a side trip while on a bike tour over the Stelvio Pass . We certainly will get to Switzerland again for extended stays before we make any decisions. We've spent substantial time in Italy on bike trips. Scenery and food was superb, but not so sure we want to live there--how can I describe it?--maybe respect for rules is not so great. I'm not good at gaming the system, and it seemed like there's a lot of that there.
Sure--it all depends on whether we can get in the door. We're still learning about that. The decision may be made for us, but we haven't given up yet.
Thanks so much for all of the input! Very valuable to hear freely from people with direct knowledge.
Switzerland is a deeply conservative country. Its elected the same majority conservative government for longer than you've been alive. Gun ownership is through the roof. Mosque minarets are banned. The areas you are considering are the most conservative areas of the pretty much the most conservative country in Europe.

Look up the 2008 minaretinitative on wiki. Glarus and Uri are some of the heaviest "yes" voting areas. Basically anything Gernan that's rural is conservative.

It's like me saying I'm fed up with brexit and moving to Alabama.
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Old 16.09.2020, 11:51
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Bed and breakfast high in the mountains, 750k

https://www.fuchsimmobilien.ch/objek...asthaus-sonne/
One problem with that idea is that running a B&B is economic activity - and the likelihood of Americans, or any non-EU, over retirement age being granted permits to do so, especially at a time when the tourism industry is experiencing massive turmoil with dark days ahead, is small. Probably even smaller than the small chance of a non-gazillionaire being granted a retirement visa.
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Old 16.09.2020, 12:15
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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My wife and I are 65-year-olds hoping to escape the U.S. for retirement to a, ahem, more civilized area. I'm just having trouble finding much on what a rural house on a small bit of land would really cost. We realize Switzerland is an expensive place to live and we aren't made of money, but figure we might be able to make it work.

We have lived in rural areas for most of our lives so would be looking at same in Switzerland. We now live on ~ 5 ha in western Colorado in a broad mountain valley next to my family's 40 ha of organic orchards. If we moved, we would just want a decent house and maybe only enough land to have a large garden, but in a quiet and relatively rural area (amidst farms?). We are surrounded by public lands here, which we use for hiking and nordic skiing and biking on the mountainy roads.

My research indicates the cheapest cantons that might fit the hiking/biking/skiing desires are Uri, Glarus, and Obwalden. I just can't find much on prices for houses and exactly how the land ownership and "zoning" works there. We could perhaps go as high as 500,000 CHF for small plot and house. Is it reasonable to find something in that range that fits our needs? We are looking for farming areas, not ski villages. Does anybody purchase land and then build a new house that suits them (like lots of solar gain and energy efficiency)? Would we have to buy an old farm house and fix it up? An outbuilding or room for a wood shop would be a huge plus. House sizes in CH seem to be about half of what we're used to here--our current house is about 200 m2 and that would be average in our area. Are they measured in the same way?

We are quite used to driving on mountain roads and can deal well with snow. But we don't want to be survivalists in the house--substantial comfort would be nice. I had quite a bit of German in college (long ago!) so that would be to go-to language. We are fine with lots of rules--that's one of the downsides of the "wild west" we live in--everyone insisting on their "freedoms" and forgetting about trying to get along with each other (or to just be *civil*).
Any and all advice will be welcome--its seems to be quite difficult to find out about living in the more rural areas of Switzerland.
While I always admire a dream, this is one that appears to be based on almost no practical working knowledge of the country you want to retire to, from either an immigration or economical perspective. A near-whim, if you will. The amount of effort posters are now having to go to, to educate you on the myriad of things you are completely clueless is about, is imo unreasonable and really show that you have done an unfair (to the people on this forum who will inevitably feel compelled to step in and help you) lack of research on many key topics, where information you can search for is available online and on this forum, before coming here asking for advice.

I would say that your chances are, while of course not impossible, VERY slim. Make sure you have a very good Plan B.
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  #39  
Old 16.09.2020, 12:47
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

OP - I think you would need, at the very minimum, 1.5 M USD to sustain your retirement on top of the 500K USD for the property. And that would be for a basic standard of living.

You don't want to be drawing down more than 4% of your total pot each year - ideally no more than 3%.

1.5M x 0.04 = 60K - for a couple that's enough but its basic.

TBH I would want to have more like 2.5M to retire here. At 1-1.5M I'd have a better life in a cheaper country.

Do you have that kind of money?
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Old 16.09.2020, 13:13
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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T

We are US citizens and I realize gaining a permit is not straightforward, but it does appear possible.
Entrada, I worry that you are approaching the non-EU permits issue with rose-colored glasses on.

It might be helpful if you highlighted the info you found that leads you to think this is do-able, so that folks here could review/interpret it, in light of the current situation in Switzerland.
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