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Old 17.09.2020, 02:31
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

OP here again out of synch with your day times...

Thanks again for all of your postings--that's what I was looking for: more info. I surely didn't intend to waste anyone's time. My whole basis for asking is that it *isn't* so easy to find out about practicalities of rural living in CH from afar (in English)--I have indeed looked hard. You have helped fill the void.

For the record, I do have substantial basic German and would work to make it much better before we did a move. And yes, I've certainly read about the differences between Swiss German and High German--there's tons posted about that. French would be much harder (or Portuguese).

We do drink , are happily married, and aren't clueless about small-town life. We appreciate it would look different in CH, but the basics must be similar.

Politics!--can't cover our life story in readable posts. I get along fine with conservative people despite us leaning the other direction. We have to--it's where we've always lived. It has just gotten so much more vicious here--lack of tolerance and outspoken anger and hatred. That's what we're trying to get away from. Perhaps mistaken, but I get the sense that the Swiss are more reserved and tolerant. Perhaps a finger-wag rather then shouting in your face. No problem with people owning guns--it's what they do with them that matters. Along with many other attractions, Switzerland came to the top of our list for having the things we want. Being a neutral country is a big plus and we're impressed by the governance structure.

The pivot to immigration problems is good to know more about. But maybe this thread is not the place--we were looking more for whether we could even find a decent place to live there on our means. I'll do more searching back for specifics on why I was led to believe immigrating was possible, then maybe post again on that specific topic.

Again--much obliged for spending the time to school us on all matters Swiss.
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  #62  
Old 17.09.2020, 06:18
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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I guess it depends on the lifestyle you want to live & your circumstances.

If you are single, buy a small place cash, don't have car etc, use local transport, cook for yourself and enjoy a simple life I am sure you don't need to be that rich to stay in Switzerland.
Magic, living simply and carefully is all well and good once you have been granted residency.

But for a non-EU, who it must be emphasised has no right to be here, simply being able to meet one's own needs is not enough. Perhaps this is a point that CH/EU citizens, who do have an intrinsic right to be here, don't fully appreciate.

For a non-EU, there has to be a reason why you should be let in - and for the most part that reason tends to be economic. The question is usually: How will your presence here benefit Switzerland? What do you bring to the table? Why should Switzerland open it's doors, and resources, to you - what do you offer in return?

The expectation is that, barring marriage or family reunion, a non-EU person will bring enough economic benefit to Switzerland to justify being let in. For most of us, that meant work. We came with jobs that no CH/EU citizen could, or would, do. And even when we do those jobs, pay significant taxes, create employment for CH/EU citizens, add value to the economy, we have to continually justify why Switzerland should allow us to stay.

Retirees face an even higher barrier, because they are not economically active. The filthy rich are welcome because it is assumed that they will spend, spend, spend.

A retiree on a fixed income, however, is seen as a potential burden. Why let someone who is 'merely' self sufficient in, at a age when one is increasingly likely to cost the state? As an example: Even if you can afford your insurance premiums the chance that you will use the health care system, and thus add to the burden of rising costs, is high. Thus you are an economic risk without bringing sufficient economic gain to Swiss society to counter. Heck, even that house Entrada wants to buy would be taking one of the few inexpensive houses away from a Swiss citizen - and this in a country with a chronic housing shortage, where young Swiss citizens can't find an affordable place to live themselves.

While that view might represent a somewhat skewed picture, it's important that Entrada understands that this is how many people in Switzerland think - including some who might be responsible for interpreting a non-EU immigrant visa application.

As a non-EU the question is not whether you can afford to live in Switzerland. No, the question is: Can you afford the entry ticket? That bar is set far higher.

Last edited by meloncollie; 17.09.2020 at 10:12.
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  #63  
Old 17.09.2020, 08:36
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

Would I, Dutch citizen, no ties to the US, be allowed to buy a cheap house and retire in Arizona ?

No !

And the same applies the other way around.
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  #64  
Old 17.09.2020, 09:07
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Would I, Dutch citizen, no ties to the US, be allowed to buy a cheap house and retire in Arizona ?

No !

And the same applies the other way around.
Exactly. International relations are based on reciprocity. Well at least they should be.
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:10
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Magic, living simply and carefully is all well and good once you have been granted residency.
Apologies; I should have quoted "TheSpouse" in my response as it was directed at those living here that move outside Switzerland. Agree, though it is moving away from the OP topic.

On that note for someone who is British the possible option of Portugal and maybe other places in Europe is closing down for me as we will in a lot of cases be treated as non-EU.

I guess for me another reason to protect my right to stay here & also appreciate the limitation for outsiders to come here too.
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:10
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Would I, Dutch citizen, no ties to the US, be allowed to buy a cheap house and retire in Arizona ?

No !

And the same applies the other way around.
Probably yes after a life working in Switzerland. EB-5 visa for example.
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  #67  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:13
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Exactly. International relations are based on reciprocity. Well at least they should be.
True - but they can also be another way - a poor country may benefit from extra income or from educators and technologist expertise, or a foreign company (and key workers) setting up a manufacturing base there.

Switzerland isn't poor though and in this case the OP is not bringing their expertise to benefit the economy.
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:14
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Apologies; I should have quoted "TheSpouse" in my response as it was directed at those living here that move outside Switzerland. Agree, though it is moving away from the OP topic.

On that note for someone who is British the possible option of Portugal and maybe other places in Europe is closing down for me as we will in a lot of cases be treated as non-EU.

I guess for me another reason to protect my right to stay here & also appreciate the limitation for outsiders to come here too.
No offence Magic - Ive been reading and enjoying your posts for months and months before I joined but have you actually looked into this? Moving to Portugal after brexit will be straightforward unless you are really quite poor. Just for a start there's the Portugese golden visa which you get with a property purchase of 500k plus.
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  #69  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:24
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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True - but they can also be another way - a poor country may benefit from extra income or from educators and technologist expertise, or a foreign company (and key workers) setting up a manufacturing base there.

Switzerland isn't poor though and in this case the OP is not bringing their expertise to benefit the economy.
As far as I noticed or better said, in my experience, many foreign companies set a manufacturing base where they can already find qualified work force and expertise up to a certain level at least.
Anyway. Plenty of foreign companies here already, unfortunately OP is not coming with any of them. Wonder if there are loopholes to work around though.

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OP here again out of synch with your day times...

Thanks again for all of your postings--that's what I was looking for: more info. I surely didn't intend to waste anyone's time. My whole basis for asking is that it *isn't* so easy to find out about practicalities of rural living in CH from afar (in English)--I have indeed looked hard. You have helped fill the void.

For the record, I do have substantial basic German and would work to make it much better before we did a move. And yes, I've certainly read about the differences between Swiss German and High German--there's tons posted about that. French would be much harder (or Portuguese).

We do drink , are happily married, and aren't clueless about small-town life. We appreciate it would look different in CH, but the basics must be similar.

Politics!--can't cover our life story in readable posts. I get along fine with conservative people despite us leaning the other direction. We have to--it's where we've always lived. It has just gotten so much more vicious here--lack of tolerance and outspoken anger and hatred. That's what we're trying to get away from. Perhaps mistaken, but I get the sense that the Swiss are more reserved and tolerant. Perhaps a finger-wag rather then shouting in your face. No problem with people owning guns--it's what they do with them that matters. Along with many other attractions, Switzerland came to the top of our list for having the things we want. Being a neutral country is a big plus and we're impressed by the governance structure.

The pivot to immigration problems is good to know more about. But maybe this thread is not the place--we were looking more for whether we could even find a decent place to live there on our means. I'll do more searching back for specifics on why I was led to believe immigrating was possible, then maybe post again on that specific topic.

Again--much obliged for spending the time to school us on all matters Swiss.
"OP", you sound like a really nice person. Wish you can find a way, don't give up hope just yet.
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:28
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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No offence Magic - Ive been reading and enjoying your posts for months and months before I joined but have you actually looked into this? Moving to Portugal after brexit will be straightforward unless you are really quite poor. Just for a start there's the Portugese golden visa which you get with a property purchase of 500k plus.
I need to look into this some more; I am not discounting it just that I believe (might be wrong) that I could remain in Switzerland.
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:37
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Would I, Dutch citizen, no ties to the US, be allowed to buy a cheap house and retire in Arizona ?

No !

And the same applies the other way around.
As long as you stay less than 90 consecutive days in the US, YES!. Drive to Mexico, get a passport stamp and return to you cheap dream home in Arizona
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  #72  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:40
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Probably yes after a life working in Switzerland. EB-5 visa for example.
After the 2000 crash, i dont do investing... and am too poor for this visa... thats why i mentioned Arizona
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:41
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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As long as you stay less than 90 consecutive days in the US, YES!. Drive to Mexico, get a passport stamp and return to you cheap dream home in Arizona
Isnt there a 180 day per calender year limit too ?
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:49
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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After the 2000 crash, i dont do investing...
You mean you leave the money in the bank, correct?
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Old 17.09.2020, 11:03
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Isnt there a 180 day per calender year limit too ?

183 days per year and you become a US tax resident I said possible, not desirable.
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Old 17.09.2020, 11:26
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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You mean you leave the money in the bank, correct?
Yes. And make sure its split over several banks.
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Old 17.09.2020, 11:32
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

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Yes. And make sure its split over several banks.
Yes that is what I have done. I am too scared to invest Property to live will be the next step.
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Old 17.09.2020, 15:47
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Re: Practical to retire in rural CH? UR, GL, OW?

Entrada, something just occurred to me:

When you say you could swing 500K for a house, do you mean 500K purchasing price, or 500K down payment? If the latter, that's a potential game changer.

I don't know if you would qualify for a mortgage as a retiree, that would depend on your annual income from your pension, investments, etc. And, be aware that different mortgage rules might apply to a chalet in the mountains...


This is just idle speculation, of course - the first question remains whether or not you could even qualify for a permit.

(I know you said upthread that you wanted to separate the finacial do-ability question from the permit question, but you really can't. Your financial situation will play a large role in getting or not getting a permit.)

---

Also, a question for EFers more familiar with Lex Koller than I am:

If Entrada were to receive a permit as a retiree, and it turns out to be an L, would he/she be allowed to purchase property given non-EU status?
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