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Old 05.10.2020, 10:49
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Storm flooded the cave - issues with lessee (or RC)

Hi all,

I am having an issue with a lessee about whose insurance should be activated.

I sublet her apartment last year when she went abroad. We included half of the cave. We did a small inventory list, but didn't note anything in the cave, so I had no idea what was there.

I went abroad too, and meanwhile, a huge storm hit the city and flooded her cave, but no more than 5 cm, I guess. I returned only 2 months later but only looked superficially and informed her, saying it didn't look superbad. Then she asked me later to receive someone to see the cave, and I checked better, noting that many of her stuff got indeed wet. I told her she could send someone else, and she never came back on the topic.

Now lessee returned to the city and found that many of her stuff was wet and rotting, like documents, pictures, towels, magazine. Nothing that looks economically valuable but she is complaining of losing this.

She claims that we need to activate our Assurance Ménage.

I told her, no, it is not my stuff, this insurance only covers personal items. But she is insisting a lot. Why? Because before leaving she cancelled her Assurance Ménage! And the thing is, in the contract we didn't put it is obligatory to have this insurance, and I didn't have anything valuable, so I didn't get one.

Am I right or are there grounds for this damage to be on me?

And there is more, she is also trying me to activate my RC insurance, because she thinks I was negligent (when I told her that it didn't look like a lot of damage).

So far I have chosen to ignore her but she is being very annoying.
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Old 05.10.2020, 10:53
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Re: Storm flooded the cave - Assurance ménage (or RC)

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Hi all,

I am having an issue with a lessee about whose insurance should be activated.

I sublet her apartment last year when she went abroad. We included half of the cave. We did a small inventory list, but didn't note anything in the cave, so I had no idea what was there.

I went abroad too, and meanwhile, a huge storm hit the city and flooded her cave, but no more than 5 cm, I guess. I returned only 2 months later but only looked superficially and informed her, saying it didn't look superbad. Then she asked me later to receive someone to see the cave, and I checked better, noting that many of her stuff got indeed wet. I told her she could send someone else, and she never came back on the topic.

Now lessee returned to the city and found that many of her stuff was wet and rotting, like documents, pictures, towels, magazine. Nothing that looks economically valuable but she is complaining of losing this.

She claims that we need to activate our Assurance Ménage.

I told her, no, it is not my stuff, this insurance only covers personal items. But she is insisting a lot. Why? Because before leaving she cancelled her Assurance Ménage! And the thing is, in the contract we didn't put it is obligatory to have this insurance, and I didn't have anything valuable, so I didn't get one.

Am I right or are there grounds for this damage to be on me?

And there is more, she is also trying me to activate my RC insurance, because she thinks I was negligent (when I told her that it didn't look like a lot of damage).

So far I have chosen to ignore her but she is being very annoying.
She cancelled he insurance so became 'self insured' & is 100% responsible for her losses.

It would be insurance fraud to pretend her belongings belonged to you.
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:07
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Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

Hi all,

I am having an issue with a lessee. We had a sublease contract.

When we signed it I asked her to send me an inventory. She only wrote a few things such as fridge, oven, bed, etc.. We also included the cave in the contract but nothing was noted on the inventory, despite her keeping half of it for her personal belongings. There is just a pic of the cave that shows many bags and boxes.

Early this year we terminated the contract, but she was still out of Switzerland and sublet the apartment to someone else, this time without the cave. I kept the key of the cave in order to return to her.

When she returned we went together to the cave, but she didn't note anything missing there aside from blanket and pillows. Then it starts to become bad when she wanted to squabble over those two items and a small stool.

I didn't accept that but then she turns to act more incisively. Recently she said that she found more of her items missing, and the list includes stuff such as silver forks, bijouterie, bronze plates, two pairs of winter socks, ceramic chickens, etc. At first I thought it was joke but she seems serious over it and threatens to go to Police! I feel like she is subtly accusing me of stealing those items.

I found it strange that nobody stole anything from me in the cave when I was there. Also, her expensive bike was still there. She recently sent an email to the regie complaining about stolen items.

In the email, however, she wrote that her cave door was semi broken, something she never told me before. It was not broken when I was there. I believe that she is trying to pull something on me to pay for those items.

I am already contacting ASLOCA but wanted to hear more opinions on this issue.
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:13
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

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Hi all,

I am having an issue with a lessee. We had a sublease contract.

When we signed it I asked her to send me an inventory. She only wrote a few things such as fridge, oven, bed, etc.. We also included the cave in the contract but nothing was noted on the inventory, despite her keeping half of it for her personal belongings. There is just a pic of the cave that shows many bags and boxes.

Early this year we terminated the contract, but she was still out of Switzerland and sublet the apartment to someone else, this time without the cave. I kept the key of the cave in order to return to her.

When she returned we went together to the cave, but she didn't note anything missing there aside from blanket and pillows. Then it starts to become bad when she wanted to squabble over those two items and a small stool.

I didn't accept that but then she turns to act more incisively. Recently she said that she found more of her items missing, and the list includes stuff such as silver forks, bijouterie, bronze plates, two pairs of winter socks, ceramic chickens, etc. At first I thought it was joke but she seems serious over it and threatens to go to Police! I feel like she is subtly accusing me of stealing those items.

I found it strange that nobody stole anything from me in the cave when I was there. Also, her expensive bike was still there. She recently sent an email to the regie complaining about stolen items.

In the email, however, she wrote that her cave door was semi broken, something she never told me before. It was not broken when I was there. I believe that she is trying to pull something on me to pay for those items.

I am already contacting ASLOCA but wanted to hear more opinions on this issue.
If the items were not on the inventory you are not responsible for them, quite simple. Looks like an attempt at Fraud, I addition to the other thread about her.
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:16
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

how many times you going to post this??
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:18
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

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how many times you going to post this??
Sorry, this is an update and the topic is slightly different, so I found better to create a new one.

In any case, I can delete it...
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:25
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

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Sorry, this is an update and the topic is slightly different, so I found better to create a new one.
She should claim on her household insurance, as she cancelled she is 'self insured' & must shoulder any loss herself.
The insurance company would probably reject the claim as she is not living there & would require receipts & other proof to work out how much depreciation to deduct in the event they were liable.
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:25
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

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If the items were not on the inventory you are not responsible for them, quite simple. Looks like an attempt at Fraud, I addition to the other thread about her.
Yes, thanks a lot
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Old 05.10.2020, 11:28
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

If it's not on the inventory neither of you can claim anything. If she is now accusing you of theft, and you suspect her claim is fraudulent, then you could report her to the police - and she would then have to prove:


a. It was you
b. She actually owned those items and can prove it.



The threat of doing this may worry her more than it does you!
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Old 05.10.2020, 12:09
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

Is this the story of the lady who sublet her apartment but then wouldn't take the rent for the furniture? In which case she's the lessor and accusing a lessee of stealing her stuff. The way it's written implies that you rented the place to her.


You did, in fact, chuck her stool and other items out, right? ...because she may have given you the impression that you could.



Let her do whatever she wants. Many insurance companies don't bother checking too much. Police aren't going to be too concerned about it or you.
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Old 05.10.2020, 12:14
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Re: Storm flooded the cave - Assurance ménage (or RC)

You are renting out caves? I knew that the French part of CH is a bit backwards... but I didn’t expect it to be that bad...
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Old 05.10.2020, 15:48
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Re: Sublease - Lessee "stolen" items

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Is this the story of the lady who sublet her apartment but then wouldn't take the rent for the furniture? In which case she's the lessor and accusing a lessee of stealing her stuff. The way it's written implies that you rented the place to her.


You did, in fact, chuck her stool and other items out, right? ...because she may have given you the impression that you could.



Let her do whatever she wants. Many insurance companies don't bother checking too much. Police aren't going to be too concerned about it or you.
She is the lessee of the main contract, I am the subtenant, but I understand the confusion.

She sublet her apartment to me and indeed, for a while after she returned she ignored my calls and appeals that I should pay her. She finally gave me the bank details and I paid her, but then she was scaling up trying to blame me for both her stolen and damaged items.
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Old 05.10.2020, 17:29
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Re: Storm flooded the cave - issues with lessee (or RC)

As an aside, do read the small print for your insurance. Many insurances will not cover you if you are away abroad without anyone checking your place regularly if you are away for a long period of time.


Leaving standing water in the cave for months could also cause structural damage- and that would be a totally different ball-game.

Last edited by JackieH; 05.10.2020 at 17:52.
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