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Old 05.10.2020, 13:18
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Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

Hi,

I have been house/ flat hunting with my husband in Geneva area for nearly two months now. Frustrating is an understatement as you guys probably can imagine.

We are looking into buying a 3 br place, either a house or a flat, with good public transport links to the city and not too far from shops. We have come across a new development in Bellevue. It's got a good size, not far from Leman Express station, and close to the lake as well. In fact, it's right next to Webster University and Richemont office. Our only concern is that it might be right under the flight path and then the airplane noise might get unbearable.

Since we are still going through the COVID period, number of flights has been greatly reduced.. So we cannot get a real picture of the noise level by hanging around there for a few hours.

Do you or do your friends have any experience living in that area? Is the airplane noise too loud when there is normal air traffic?

Cheers!
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Old 05.10.2020, 14:03
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

I used to live right under the flight path at Manchester airport... 20 years ago when planes were much louder .... barely noticed it. Although Concorde made me shit myself on a couple of occasions.

Number of flights are reduced, but you can still get the idea now of how loud a plane is!
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Old 05.10.2020, 14:23
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

Grab a good book, and drive to the location and park for a few hours.

As (If) things get back to normal the airlines will return to Geneva and/or increase the number of their flights. At first they will use their most fuel efficient aircraft, which are also their quietist. So the frequency will increase, but not necessarily the amount of noise per flight. Over time? Who knows.

As a new development the builders should have taken the noise into consideration but they can’t do much if you like windows open or siting on your balcony.
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Old 05.10.2020, 14:46
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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I used to live right under the flight path at Manchester airport... 20 years ago when planes were much louder .... barely noticed it. Although Concorde made me shit myself on a couple of occasions.

Number of flights are reduced, but you can still get the idea now of how loud a plane is!
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Old 05.10.2020, 14:48
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

Are there any Hôtels close to where the house is? Go and spend a night there, sit on terrace, keep windows opened. For me, it would be a big NO- but we are all different.
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Old 05.10.2020, 14:50
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

The number of flights is massively reduced..

We're on the flight path but much further back.. We're back where the planes descend and follow the lake to the airport.. Previously we could often see 6-7-8 planes lined up and following each other in .. Now we hardly see any..

So any observation now is gonna be very different later.. ** Maybe **
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Old 05.10.2020, 15:05
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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Are there any Hôtels close to where the house is? Go and spend a night there, sit on terrace, keep windows opened. For me, it would be a big NO- but we are all different.
Not many planes right now.. But your suggestion is a very good one! The experience would probably be closer to the real deal of living there than just hanging around for half a day.
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Old 05.10.2020, 15:07
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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Grab a good book, and drive to the location and park for a few hours.

As (If) things get back to normal the airlines will return to Geneva and/or increase the number of their flights. At first they will use their most fuel efficient aircraft, which are also their quietist. So the frequency will increase, but not necessarily the amount of noise per flight. Over time? Who knows.

As a new development the builders should have taken the noise into consideration but they can’t do much if you like windows open or siting on your balcony.
During summer, we spend almost all day long on the terrace of our current flat. So for us, outdoor living is an important part. Keeping the windows shut and being able to use the garden/ terrace would kill our idea of domestic fun.

Hence this post calling for help..
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Old 05.10.2020, 15:21
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

HI, these are the results of noise simulation from air traffic provided by Canton Genéve. Every curve in the map is associated to a noise level in dB. If noise matters, stay outside the curves or have another glass of wine until it doesn't matter anymore https://www.etat.ge.ch/geoportail/pr...=AIG_LEQ_06_22
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Old 05.10.2020, 15:31
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

On a second thought, if you're buying you can consult engineers or architects about this. The noise comes from above and it can be reflected by concrete/asphalt or absorbed by vegetation and other surfaces.

Also make a historical search in newspapers from airplane noise. Do people from Bellevue complain about it? There's an association of people upset with airplane noise, if your future neighbors are part of it.....run away https://aragge.ch
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Old 05.10.2020, 16:05
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

I would have a bit of trail through hotel and AirBnB reviews in that area.

It also depends on where exactly you are in relation to the route. I live in what is considered the flight path of Zurich airport but the planes are never directly above. That makes a huge difference, as someone who understands physics better than I do could surely explain, something about how the sound waves travel.

I don't know Bellevue but have spent a bit of time in Versoix and the planes are pretty impactful there. "Stop talking until it has passed" level of noise.
Maybe this tool can help you find out the sort of noise to expect, there is historical data there, only available in French as far as I can see.
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Old 05.10.2020, 16:29
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

if it's a new build there's every chance they'll triple glaze the windows. i bought a new build place under a flight path and i cant hear anything. the planes in fact look great coming up over the forest in the big window. also there's a small airport nearby where private jets fly near ish to the other side of the house and again i cant hear them at all.
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Old 05.10.2020, 16:47
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

My bedroom window overlooks a cul-de-sac street, and there are about 140 flats in the quarter.
In the spring, summer and autumn the window is either ajar or closed but with some ventilation and noise intrusion.
Otherwise it is too hot and stuffy.
So, the morning cars leaving this little cul-de-sac street are a constant nuisance, with the occasional modded exhaust or motor-bike waking me up in the wee hours. Now, with covid and work-from-home, it is even worse - everyone at home is going to the bed later and then I am woken up but the morning commuters at 5-6 am while 7am would be just fine.

I would say - if you have not lived in an apartment in noisy area, better rent one there and see if it works for you. And in the heat of the summer, if possible, as well. Unless you'll seal it off and run AC 24h a day.
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Old 05.10.2020, 16:53
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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if it's a new build there's every chance they'll triple glaze the windows. i bought a new build place under a flight path and i cant hear anything. the planes in fact look great coming up over the forest in the big window. also there's a small airport nearby where private jets fly near ish to the other side of the house and again i cant hear them at all.
As long as the planes don’t fall down onto the property

We used to live in a flat few meters away from the railway tracks but there was a double or triple glass barrier so the noise level was just like a lullaby to our ears before the nightfall. However, when we opened the terrace doors to the garden on the other side, you could distinctly hear the trains noise.

I suppose the planes taking off and landing are a far better entertainment element than the machinery’s howling sound of the wagons against the tracks.

Switzerland being a small country, you will always end up with some kind of inconveniences e.g. church or cow bells, railroads, busy roads, sometime airports especially in urban and densely inhabited areas. It’s a matter of compromise and amount of earplugs frequently used.
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Old 05.10.2020, 18:11
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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I used to live right under the flight path at Manchester airport... 20 years ago when planes were much louder .... barely noticed it. Although Concorde made me shit myself on a couple of occasions.

Number of flights are reduced, but you can still get the idea now of how loud a plane is!
I remember being at the exit of a car hire place at Heathrow back in the 90s, just handing over the paperwork to leave. Concorde went down the runway just behind me.....I ducked. That was a noisy bird
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Old 05.10.2020, 20:42
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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Do you or do your friends have any experience living in that area? Is the airplane noise too loud when there is normal air traffic?

Cheers!
I live in Bellevue.

You will hear the flights, and yes the number of flights are substantially reduced at the moment. There's a curfew between midnight and 6am, which is occasionally broken.

By the way, it's 5 mins by car from the airport and there's a direct bus that takes 10 mins, or so.

You should check the arrival and departure times from GVA airport website and you can download flightradar24 to see their direction. Armed with this info, you can go back and and listen for yourself.

Personally, I find the sound of a dog barking more intrusive.

You should also have a look at google earth / maps to see where the development is in relation to the flight path.

There's a lot of construction in Bellevue at the moment and everything sells quickly.

As well as Websters, and the global HQ of Richemont, Lombard Odier are currently constructing their global HQ in the commune.
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Old 05.10.2020, 20:51
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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I remember being at the exit of a car hire place at Heathrow back in the 90s, just handing over the paperwork to leave. Concorde went down the runway just behind me.....I ducked. That was a noisy bird
Yep..... she was fantastic! And not just the noise but she made the air vibrate on your chest. Normally I'd go to the end of our road and sit on the fence around the landing lights, to watch her go. But a couple of times she took me by surprise!
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Old 05.10.2020, 23:13
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

The major flight path and noise is about a block up the street at the level of the country club and US marine house (above Richemont) . The planes get very scarily low at that point when the approach for landing. I have to cover ears and often duck for cover depending on plane size. Personally I couldn't live there, but the location you mention is slightly down from the apex.
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Old 05.10.2020, 23:38
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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HI, these are the results of noise simulation from air traffic provided by Canton Genéve. Every curve in the map is associated to a noise level in dB. If noise matters, stay outside the curves or have another glass of wine until it doesn't matter anymore https://www.etat.ge.ch/geoportail/pr...=AIG_LEQ_06_22
Wow, this is such a useful tool. Thanks!
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Old 05.10.2020, 23:42
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Re: Buying a property in Bellevue GE, airplane noise?

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I live in Bellevue.

You will hear the flights, and yes the number of flights are substantially reduced at the moment. There's a curfew between midnight and 6am, which is occasionally broken.

By the way, it's 5 mins by car from the airport and there's a direct bus that takes 10 mins, or so.

You should check the arrival and departure times from GVA airport website and you can download flightradar24 to see their direction. Armed with this info, you can go back and and listen for yourself.

Personally, I find the sound of a dog barking more intrusive.

You should also have a look at google earth / maps to see where the development is in relation to the flight path.

There's a lot of construction in Bellevue at the moment and everything sells quickly.

As well as Websters, and the global HQ of Richemont, Lombard Odier are currently constructing their global HQ in the commune.
I think when it comes to noise, it is indeed a very personal thing. We as a couple just need to be outdoor so much that having to cover our ears all the time is a big no no.
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