Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 59
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
CheshireCa has no particular reputation at present
Split unit AC - Freienbach

Dear all,

I am looking to either rent or buy a house in Freienbach, and one requirement that I understood can be challenging is having a split unit AC.

Please do not explain to me that I do not need it. I have lived in much colder climates, and my body react differently than most to heat and cold. What I am unlikely to ever need here is heating, but I absolutely must have an AC in this climate, and it needs to be strong (portable won't do).

I searched the forums and got conflicting results regarding there either being a law against AC, the former being an urban legend, de facto existance of personal AC installation sales in Zurich, and claims of regulation that requires permission from the municipality, or other apartments in a building, to install one.

This is all quite confusing unfortunately.
Does anyone have personal experience actually installing private house AC in Switzerland? Does anyone know what is the process to do so in Zurich area or Freienbach specifically?
If I go for a house, rather than an apartment, is it easier (as then I don't need consent from other apartments in the building)?

Cost is not a problem. Cost of electricity is not a problem. I am looking for power in terms of cooling, and the ability to sustain a pleasant temperature of no more than 16 degrees regardless of weather outside.
If medical reasons can help, I can use my allergies as a reason, as a modern AC has air cleansing and anti allergenic properties. If having a business helps, I can operate a dummy micro business in my house.
Basically, any advise, especially from experience, on how to actually obtain a proper AC is most welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:27
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,791
Groaned at 308 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 15,851 Times in 4,845 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

I personally would find a real estate agent to help you with your requests. I have a feeling you may need a professional to help you find exactly what you want.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:31
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,321
Groaned at 58 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 7,164 Times in 3,237 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

you will also have more joy, I would say, if you buy. Landlords, even if you can make the modification to fit AC reversible, are not going to be keen for such a mod.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sean Connery for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 59
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
CheshireCa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Thank you both for your reply.

Yes, I will probably have to go through a real estate agent. I wanted first to get a sense of the expectations, especially if they are not experienced with this request, as it seems that household ACs are rare here.

And yes, one of the main reasons I am considering buying, is because I prefer to have freedom to do modifications. However, if there is a law or a regulation about this, I would prefer to know the details and get an exception before I tie myself in with a purchase.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07.10.2020, 11:17
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,232
Groaned at 27 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,982 Times in 1,379 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
I wanted first to get a sense of the expectations, especially if they are not experienced with this request, as it seems that household ACs are rare here.
Not rare. I've seen them ready to buy in an OBI this summer.

I'd guess the only problem is the noise. The compressor unit can be as noisy as a regular vacuum cleaner. So your AC working at 2AM might be an issue with the neighbors if noise control measures such insulating the compressor are not taken. I would not be surprised at all if keeping noise low is more expensive than the AC by itself.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 07.10.2020, 11:24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 59
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
CheshireCa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
Not rare. I've seen them ready to buy in an OBI this summer.

I'd guess the only problem is the noise. The compressor unit can be as noisy as a regular vacuum cleaner. So your AC working at 2AM might be an issue with the neighbors if noise control measures such insulating the compressor are not taken. I would not be surprised at all if keeping noise low is more expensive than the AC by itself.
That's a good point. I wouldn't want to disrupt the neighbors. I can insulate the compressor, this is not a problem. Plus, during the night I will need it more rarely I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:47
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 148
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 375 Times in 110 Posts
GParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Do you want to keep one room at 16 degree's or the whole property?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank GParker for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,246
Groaned at 206 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 5,799 Times in 2,712 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

16C? I wouldn’t have thought that was even possible when ambient temperatures are above 30.

When I was still working the management of the company maintained that they were prevented (by law or regulation?) from reducing the ambient temperature by more than 5C. This was Geneva city and canton and I don’t know if it was true.

I would first ask at your local commune if regulations apply.

I would also look at other options (geothermal cooling; window protection; etc.)as well.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:55
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,355
Groaned at 499 Times in 399 Posts
Thanked 22,292 Times in 9,054 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
I have a feeling you may need a professional to help you find exactly what you want.
Yes, I concur. You may need professional help.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:56
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,259
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,643 Times in 10,946 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
16C? I wouldn’t have thought that was even possible when ambient temperatures are above 30.

When I was still working the management of the company maintained that they were prevented (by law or regulation?) from reducing the ambient temperature by more than 5C. This was Geneva city and canton and I don’t know if it was true.

I would first ask at your local commune if regulations apply.

I would also look at other options (geothermal cooling; window protection; etc.)as well.
I suspect it's quite dangerous going from a building to outside if the temperature difference was more than 10 degrees, in winter we put on extra clothes when going outside where such differences exist.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07.10.2020, 10:57
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 4,306
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 4,497 Times in 2,296 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

First of all, I think that maintaining anything less than 18-19°C is going to be a real challenge. The building/house will capture heat in the summer and store it. A portion will "leak" into the living area. In the heating season neighbours in the building will be heating. Some of that, depending on the location of your apt. will work it's way into your apt.

Keep in mind that most fixed split systems will be about 12-15'000 btu. One system will not cool a whole apt. or house to your desired temperature.

There are a couple of possible solutions without going for the fixed split system that requires cantonal approval.

First, depending on the orientation of the windows (South) you can have them covered with a metallic film that reflects 90 % (from memory) of the heat load coming in from the windows (the greatest heat load impact in the apt/house). I would suggest that you have it done professionally as the DYI stuff can look pretty nasty. I imagine there will be people to do it in ZH as there are suppliers down at this end of the country.

Second, look at getting one or more portable split systems from Fust (Novamatic CL 990 split) that are 15,000 btu (good for 55m2 - 146m3). The compresser can be hung out the window and the window can be easily sealed (the cable is not very thick). Portable units do not need Cantonal approval. These are not cheap but they get around the approval issue and work as well or better than the fixed units.
__________________
Do or do not, there is no try(ing). Yoda
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Verbier for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 07.10.2020, 11:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 59
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
CheshireCa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Thank you for your replies.

The 16 degrees is especially for the bedroom.
I can try to manage with 18 degrees if push comes to shovel, though I prefer temperatures below that.
I am able, from experience, to use split ACs to generate a difference of over 20 degrees between inside and outside when necessary. This just requires strong ACs, and fitting each room with one. Top tier split units can go to 30000 btu and above, and I am willing to splurge on a few of those, though in this climate I think 2-3 15000 btu ones, or one 30000 btu unit, should suffice for a medium house.
Since I am aiming for a house, leakage of heat from neightboors shouldn't be a problem.

Portable ACs leak air from outside, which presents a problem both with allergy, and with decreased efficiency. I have tried these before.

Regarding canton approval - this is what I am really interested in: how does such approval work? What do I need to do? What can help me make a good case to them?

P.S. The mettalic covering is an interesting idea, thank you, I will probably do it regardless to minimise the need to use the AC when avoidable, though during the summer it will still be unavoidable I fear.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07.10.2020, 12:14
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,070
Groaned at 344 Times in 234 Posts
Thanked 11,538 Times in 3,978 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for your replies.

The 16 degrees is especially for the bedroom.
I can try to manage with 18 degrees if push comes to shovel, though I prefer temperatures below that.
Have you had your thyroid checked? A serious question...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 07.10.2020, 15:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 54 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 1,618 Times in 939 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
Second, look at getting one or more portable split systems from Fust (Novamatic CL 990 split) that are 15,000 btu (good for 55m2 - 146m3). The compresser can be hung out the window and the window can be easily sealed (the cable is not very thick).

This is incorrect. Portable split units have the compressor in the indoor unit so what you hang out of the window only has the noise from the fan. These Fust units are noisy inside.



Fixed split units can be installed in a similar way to the portable ones, i.e. without making them too fixed but there you do have the compressor unit outside. Whether this would get around the rules, if there are any, I would doubt. However, if you buy a place where the outside unit can be hidden or is hard to see, and have sound reducing panels around it, and maybe if you don't have onlooking neighbours you could probably get away with it.


16C coldness from a/c is "colder" than 16C ambient temperature on an autumn day and I feel sorry for you that you have such a condition where this would be comfortable to you.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07.10.2020, 15:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 54 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 1,618 Times in 939 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

The argo ulisse is probably the best you can buy for a semi-permanent home install without going crazy on price.


We got a couple of used Stiebel Eltron ACPS units for just over 100eur each which are also good but I don't think they make them anymore. If they ever pack up then I'll be getting the Argo.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 23.10.2020, 23:33
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 209 Times in 163 Posts
Thanked 1,940 Times in 946 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
Please do not explain to me that I do not need it. I have lived in much colder climates, and my body react differently than most to heat and cold. What I am unlikely to ever need here is heating, but I absolutely must have an AC in this climate, and it needs to be strong (portable won't do).

I searched the forums and got conflicting results regarding there either being a law against AC, the former being an urban legend, de facto existance of personal AC installation sales in Zurich, and claims of regulation that requires permission from the municipality, or other apartments in a building, to install one.

This is all quite confusing unfortunately.
Does anyone have personal experience actually installing private house AC in Switzerland? Does anyone know what is the process to do so in Zurich area or Freienbach specifically?
If I go for a house, rather than an apartment, is it easier (as then I don't need consent from other apartments in the building)?.



Apologies, I have been on holiday and had not seen this thread. Some of us are hugely and over (perhaps) sensitive to noise, especially electronic/artificial noise - so it depends on the noise issue and location. If someone installed a noisy AC unit (and my idea of noisy may be very different to yours), especially in a rural location- I'd oppose it. If your neighbours are not sensitive, they may not. We all have our own sensibilities that sometimes conflict. Fact is, it is not the norm for people to have AC units in mountainous rural areas in Switzerland- and people here like to sleep with windows opened. So just depends- think carefully about noise and location/noise direction. We have cow bells, tractors, foxes, cockerels - AC noise, no.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 23.10.2020, 23:44
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 59
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
CheshireCa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
Apologies, I have been on holiday and had not seen this thread. Some of us are hugely and over (perhaps) sensitive to noise, especially electronic/artificial noise - so it depends on the noise issue and location. If someone installed a noisy AC unit (and my idea of noisy may be very different to yours), especially in a rural location- I'd oppose it. If your neighbours are not sensitive, they may not. We all have our own sensibilities that sometimes conflict. Fact is, it is not the norm for people to have AC units in mountainous rural areas in Switzerland- and people here like to sleep with windows opened. So just depends- think carefully about noise and location/noise direction. We have cow bells, tractors, foxes, cockerels - AC noise, no.
Oh, this is a surprise revival.
Anyhow, thank you. I plan to sound insulate the external unit. In a rural setting I should have plenty of space to do this.

P.S. Tractors are an artificial noise, and not unsimilar to that of an AC as compared to a cow
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CheshireCa for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 23.10.2020, 23:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 209 Times in 163 Posts
Thanked 1,940 Times in 946 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

In the eyes of the beholder- or rather the ears. Very different sensibilities and cultures and what is locally considered 'the norm'. Townies who come to live in the mountains/rural regions, or get holiday homes and start complaining about tractors, cow bells, muck spreading smells, roosters are dawn - get VERY short shrift here and told to go back to town, police sirens and AC units. Honest


You are obviously not from Cheshire UK, or you'd know that, lol.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24.10.2020, 00:01
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 59
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
CheshireCa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Split unit AC - Freienbach

Quote:
View Post
In the eyes of the beholder- or rather the ears. Very different sensibilities and cultures and what is locally considered 'the norm'. Townies who come to live in the mountains/rural regions, or get holiday homes and start complaining about tractors, cow bells, muck spreading smells, roosters are dawn - get VERY short shrift here and told to go back to town, police sirens and AC units. Honest


You are obviously not from Cheshire UK, or you'd know that, lol.
Haha, well I actually enjoy cow noises etc more than the police sirens, or worse, schools (once lived next door to a school, never again. The amount of noise they generate is in a different league).
And I lived near roosters at dawn before, which was mostly funny as the rooster in question was schizo I think, and tended to call out at 03:00 sometimes.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted apartment in Freienbach (SZ) Castro Property wanted 8 26.09.2020 08:31
New in Freienbach Gemma82 Introductions 1 20.10.2012 17:26
New to Freienbach - Hello JaneyW Introductions 1 31.10.2010 21:03
What are Lachen or Freienbach like? donpedro Introductions 13 11.08.2008 21:50
Family in Freienbach raistlin Family matters/health 0 13.07.2007 21:40


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0