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Old 23.10.2020, 23:11
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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It's more complex than that sadly. The cantons in question are not Zurich, this is just where I arrived.
I want to live in high altitude area in the mountains, in a remote rural setting. But the difference in tax is so huge compared to freieinbach that this question came about.

I actually work in Zurich but this doesn't matter as I work from home in the foreseeable few years anyway, so commute to work is rare.
Is somewhere like Unteriberg or Oberiberg high enough and rural for you? Granted tax isn‘t as low as Freienbach, but I suspect cheaper than mountains in other cantons.
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Old 23.10.2020, 23:17
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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Is somewhere like Unteriberg or Oberiberg high enough and rural for you? Granted tax isn‘t as low as Freienbach, but I suspect cheaper than mountains in other cantons.
They are high and rural enough, but the tax difference is sadly enough to still consider such a maneuver.
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  #23  
Old 23.10.2020, 23:19
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

Though with these two it starts bordering on breaking even given the high costs in Freienbach. So thanks, these are actually interesting locations.
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Old 23.10.2020, 23:32
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

If it does not matter where you live as you don't have to go to the office, why don't you just live, (buy or rent) in a low tax area?
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Old 23.10.2020, 23:35
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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If it does not matter where you live as you don't have to go to the office, why don't you just live, (buy or rent) in a low tax area?
I would be glad to, sadly hard to get detached houses in Freienbach (if you know one I'll be glad to view it).
I would like a more rural house, with greenery, preferably higher where I get snow and colder temperature, etc.
Not to mention that I need to do modification to where I live (installing AC for example), and from my preliminary search - rural detached houses are very accepting of me doing that. Freienbach apartments - not so much.
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Old 23.10.2020, 23:52
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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I would be glad to, sadly hard to get detached houses in Freienbach (if you know one I'll be glad to view it).
I would like a more rural house, with greenery, preferably higher where I get snow and colder temperature, etc.
Not to mention that I need to do modification to where I live (installing AC for example), and from my preliminary search - rural detached houses are very accepting of me doing that. Freienbach apartments - not so much.
First bold: All a question of money. If you can afford a CHF 3m+ place, go and register with some local estate agents. If you pay a bit more tax you‘ll find better value for money in the March region (Altendorf, Sieben, Wangen, Schübelbach, Galgenen, Reichenburg etc - just search for region March in Homegate.ch).

Second bold: not necessarily. At least 2 of my neighbours‘ terraced apartments have plumbed in air conditioning and it was an option (that I semi-regret not taking) when we refurbished.
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Old 23.10.2020, 23:54
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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How long were you registered in BS? All my moves between cantons involved two declarations for that year so far.
February until May. My accountant specifically said I would only be filling in Aargau.
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  #28  
Old 24.10.2020, 00:01
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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First bold: All a question of money. If you can afford a CHF 3m+ place, go and register with some local estate agents. If you pay a bit more tax you‘ll find better value for money in the March region (Altendorf, Sieben, Wangen, Schübelbach, Galgenen, Reichenburg etc - just search for region March in Homegate.ch).

Second bold: not necessarily. At least 2 of my neighbours‘ terraced apartments have plumbed in air conditioning and it was an option (that I semi-regret not taking) when we refurbished.
Thanks! This is good to hear.
Do real estate agents have options that are exclusive? As I have relocation services who are searching for me online.
Second - are any of your neighboors moving perhaps? I would be glad to rent a place that already has it installed, even better.
In all seriousness, this is good to hear. I was a bit worried from my initial search results, but maybe I will be able to find something.

Maybe I won't have to do this whole living in two places after all, which will solve a lot of headache.
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  #29  
Old 24.10.2020, 00:01
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

If you live in the mountains, you don't need AC- one of the joys is that it always cools down at night- and doesn't get so hot daytime- bliss.
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Old 24.10.2020, 00:06
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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If you live in the mountains, you don't need AC- one of the joys is that it always cools down at night- and doesn't get so hot daytime- bliss.
Without reharshing another thread that I had - you don't. I do.
There exists no town in Europe in which I personally would be willing to live without AC (and I say it having been born in Russia, which is partially in Europe), as my definition of "habitable temperature differs from most people's.

But otherwise, yes, mountains are lovely. They also get snow which I adore.
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  #31  
Old 24.10.2020, 00:23
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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Thanks! This is good to hear.
Do real estate agents have options that are exclusive? As I have relocation services who are searching for me online.
Second - are any of your neighboors moving perhaps? I would be glad to rent a place that already has it installed, even better.
In all seriousness, this is good to hear. I was a bit worried from my initial search results, but maybe I will be able to find something.

Maybe I won't have to do this whole living in two places after all, which will solve a lot of headache.
If all the relocation agents are doing is looking online, you are paying the wrong ones. You want to use ones who have local knowledge and a network. I’m led to believe that a lot of the good properties are sold before they get to open market.
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Old 24.10.2020, 00:26
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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If all the relocation agents are doing is looking online, you are paying the wrong ones. You want to use ones who have local knowledge and a network. I’m led to believe that a lot of the good properties are sold before they get to open market.
I was not aware of this.
And here is an example of something I already learned today from asking this question that my tax advisor is unlikely to comment on.
Thank you
I will discuss with the relocation agents, and make sure they use real estate agents as well.
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  #33  
Old 24.10.2020, 01:10
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but if you are looking in the 3-5mil range there are a couple of houses with land* currently for sale in Gersau and Einsiedeln.

Sure, the taxes are not low if Höfe is your standard, but these are still canton SZ. Nice views of the Sihlsee in Einsiedeln, nice views of the Vierwaldstattersee in Gersau.

And Einsiedeln is known as being 'immer eine Jacke kälter'.



*Lots of land in Switzerland means 1000m2 - a whole quarter acre. One has to adjust to a new notion of size. Actually, one of these has 2500. You'd be a veritable land baron.


Also, maybe I am missing something, but why not have your mountain residence a holiday home? There is some sort of tax sharing in such cases, a chat with your accountant would be a advised.
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Old 24.10.2020, 01:17
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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Also, does this work per canton, or per monicipality? For example, what if both location A and B are in Canton Swiss, but different municipalities?
What is "Canton Swiss?" For simplicity let assume it mean a Swiss canton, any of 26. If you move within a canton you must look at the tax law of that canton. Can be residency at start of the year, residency at end of the year, or a pro rata rule applies. Moving from one canton to another is always end of the year.


About actual residency: It is the place where your center of life is and you intend to settle permanently. There are various federal court ruling on the topic. But merely registering in a commune is an indication not good enough on its own. Also federal court rulings might set a certain precedence they are always on case by case basis. The federal court can even change its opinion.

Registering just for a month clearly indicates that there was no intend to settle at the other place permanently.

Court rulings:
https://www.wochenaufenthalt.info/ge...icht/index.htm
https://www.wohn-sitz.ch/wochenaufenthalt-kein-wohnsitz
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Old 24.10.2020, 01:25
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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It's more complex than that sadly. The cantons in question are not Zurich, this is just where I arrived.
I want to live in high altitude area in the mountains, in a remote rural setting. But the difference in tax is so huge compared to freieinbach that this question came about.

I actually work in Zurich but this doesn't matter as I work from home in the foreseeable few years anyway, so commute to work is rare.
Schwyz has some pretty mountainous places and is low tax right? It goes up to 2800m. Surely there is a decent compromise to be had there to be had with location and tax without playing silly games
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Old 24.10.2020, 01:37
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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Schwyz has some pretty mountainous places and is low tax right? It goes up to 2800m.
Only the Höfe villages are low tax.

March is low-ish but noticably higher than Höfe.

The rest of the canton isn't really low tax. Income dependent, the pretty mountainous parts of SZ might be on par with a few of the more tax friendly Gemeinden in other cantons.

But I agree - look for something in SZ, contribute to the local economy of the place you live, where you consume resources.

Or the OP should probably be looking in ZG, high above the Agrisee. Homes will be pricier, though.
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Old 24.10.2020, 01:39
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but if you are looking in the 3-5mil range there are a couple of houses with land* currently for sale in Gersau and Einsiedeln.

Sure, the taxes are not low if Höfe is your standard, but these are still canton SZ. Nice views of the Sihlsee in Einsiedeln, nice views of the Vierwaldstattersee in Gersau.

And Einsiedeln is known as being 'immer eine Jacke kälter'.



*Lots of land in Switzerland means 1000m2 - a whole quarter acre. One has to adjust to a new notion of size. Actually, one of these has 2500. You'd be a veritable land baron.


Also, maybe I am missing something, but why not have your mountain residence a holiday home? There is some sort of tax sharing in such cases, a chat with your accountant would be a advised.
I do not need that much land lol. I just need enough to have a bit of privacy, some greenerty (maybe a few trees) and where to place an external sound insulated AC unit. A typical garden can be enough for that
The holiday home idea is interesting. I can spend the summer there, to avoid the heat. This could work ...
Then most of the year I can spend in the lower tax area.

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What is "Canton Swiss?" For simplicity let assume it mean a Swiss canton, any of 26. If you move within a canton you must look at the tax law of that canton. Can be residency at start of the year, residency at end of the year, or a pro rata rule applies. Moving from one canton to another is always end of the year.


About actual residency: It is the place where your center of life is and you intend to settle permanently. There are various federal court ruling on the topic. But merely registering in a commune is an indication not good enough on its own. Also federal court rulings might set a certain precedence they are always on case by case basis. The federal court can even change its opinion.

Registering just for a month clearly indicates that there was no intend to settle at the other place permanently.

Court rulings:
https://www.wochenaufenthalt.info/ge...icht/index.htm
https://www.wohn-sitz.ch/wochenaufenthalt-kein-wohnsitz
OK, thank you. This exactly answers my original question. So it seems that this might be at the very leats too complicated legally to seriously consider even if cost effective.
Regarding the canton, apologies, I meant Schwyz, it got corrected. And I was wrong in that statement anyway.

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Schwyz has some pretty mountainous places and is low tax right? It goes up to 2800m. Surely there is a decent compromise to be had there to be had with location and tax without playing silly games
I actually checked a few places in Schwyz. The houses are lovely, and the area seems very nice, as well as the people. Unfortunetly the difference between the tax band there and Freienbach is more than enough for an extra apartment rental to be very profitable...
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  #38  
Old 24.10.2020, 08:33
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

You would need to formally move your residence there. Then it will work for that tax year.

But then what?

You move it back Jan 1st? And then back again?

Why not simply keep your main residence in the canton that is lower tax?

The Tax authorities have started asking maaaaaany more questions in the last 5 yrs or so. If they can prove your place of residence is actually the higher tax one, then they will tax you there.

The system is not made to be "optimized" as you are trying to do. For simplification they took Dec 31st as the cut off but the idea is not to move around each December to pay less tax. The idea is, if you move anyway, may as well do it before then if going to a lower tax canton.

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Old 24.10.2020, 11:57
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

If your worry about living in one of the Höfe villages is simply the ability to put in air conditioning, I think you might be worrying overmuch.

You just have to look in the luxury housing category. (Tax optimisation at Höfe levels really only makes sense if you are in that financial category already.) You should be able to install air con (if it isn't there already) in a house or terraced flat in the high-end price ranges. Just make sure the firm you choose to do the installation is local and connected and will help you get any permits needed.

Simplify your life in the first years here... then once you understand how things work, make longer term decisions from a better informed stance.
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Old 24.10.2020, 12:37
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Re: If you rent two homes, where do you pay tax?

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I actually checked a few places in Schwyz. The houses are lovely, and the area seems very nice, as well as the people. Unfortunetly the difference between the tax band there and Freienbach is more than enough for an extra apartment rental to be very profitable...
Schwyz is a Kanton as well as a town (and Gemeinde). Freienbach is a Gemeinde of Kanton Schwyz, as are the mountainous options I mentioned Unteriberg and Oberiberg and Einsiedeln that Meloncollie mentioned.

When you talk about the tax differences being very profitable... I‘m going to make an assumption that an apartment in Freienbach is going to cost you CHF 2k a month. To save CHF 2k a month in tax between Oberiberg and Freienbach you need an income of c. CHF 600k pa (assuming single, no religion, no kids). That‘s to break even. To make it „very profitable“ I‘m assuming that you would need to make the same CHF 2k a month saving. That puts you into the earning over CHF 1m a year category.

2 points - 1) if you are making a million a year is all the hassle really worth it to save CHF 25k?
2) At that kind of income level it used to be possible to start talking to some of the more pragmatic tax offices about doing a deal on your taxes. I don‘t know if that is still possible, but surely your tax advisors would know. NB I‘m not talking about the kind of deal where you come as a foreigner and don‘t be economically active, but pay a multiple of your rental costs in taxes. I‘ve heard stories of well off Swiss business owners doing deals about where they live, but this was 10+ years ago, so may no longer be an option.
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