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  #21  
Old 06.11.2020, 19:15
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

How old is the property?

I'd be very cautious, but if the property is older then any problems are more likely to have already surfaced.

What's the quality of the property like? If it has top quality finish, it's more likely that everything below-ground has also been done properly.

Have there been more sales than you would expect for the area, possibly indicating issues or that residents suspect issues coming up?

Bear in mind that building insurance doesn't help you much if the whole site gets condemned, or if you start getting a series of problems that make the place unsaleable and take over your life.
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Old 06.11.2020, 19:18
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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How old is the property?

I'd be very cautious, but if the property is older then any problems are more likely to have already surfaced.

What's the quality of the property like? If it has top quality finish, it's more likely that everything below-ground has also been done properly.

Have there been more sales than you would expect for the area, possibly indicating issues or that residents suspect issues coming up?

Bear in mind that building insurance doesn't help you much if the whole site gets condemned, or if you start getting a series of problems that make the place unsaleable and take over your life.
I don't know if there is a risk that you might not be able to rebuild on the land in the event of a problem, it can happen in ski resorts after an avalanche, the land becomes worthless due to re zoning, the insurance payout only covers rebuilding so 30-50% of the total cost of replacement.
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  #23  
Old 06.11.2020, 19:21
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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What's the quality of the property like? If it has top quality finish, it's more likely that everything below-ground has also been done properly.


A friend who is a top market Estate Agent warned us that one of the best way to hide real, deep problems- is to hide them with top quality finish for kitchen and bathrooms, etc. to 'blind' the buyers.
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Old 06.11.2020, 19:23
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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A friend who is a top market Estate Agent warned us that one of the best way to hide real, deep problems- is to hide them with top quality finish for kitchen and bathrooms, etc. to 'blind' the buyers.
I don't believe that is true in CH as you would not cover the costs of the work. 100k for the kitchen & 50k per bathroom at Swiss prices, could easily be more.
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Old 06.11.2020, 19:26
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

oh lol, we do indeed live on very different planets- and it is just as well, hey
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  #26  
Old 06.11.2020, 20:41
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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Hi All, Thanks a lot for your replies!

We contacted the Basel land kanton and got the following answer from them

"Die Deponie «Ziegelei» in Allschwil war eine kontrollierte Inertstoff-Deponie (heute: Deponie-Typ B nach VVEA), die von 1978 bis 1986 betrieben wurde.

Es wurde weitgehend inertes Material (Bauschutt, Abbruchmaterial, Aushub, Steine, Ziegel, Holz, Strassenaufbruch) abgelagert. Aufgrund der Nähe zu Allschwil sind illegale, unkontrollierte Ablagerungen eher unwahrscheinlich.

Kehrricht (Hausmüll) und Industriemüll wurden dort nicht abgelagert.
Der Ablagerungsstandort ist bewertet als «belastet, weder überwachungs- noch sanierungsbedürftig»."


It looks like it was a landfill of building rubble, stones, wood etc.

Would this change your opinions knowing this info?
No, knowing this info would not change my opinion, and I would still advise against such a purchase because
a)
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die von 1978 bis 1986 betrieben wurde
and that may be too recently for any problems to be properly known, yet too long ago to be sure that there was strict enough monitoring of any environmental and safety rules which may then have been in place. This, especially since this text
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Es wurde weitgehend inertes Material (Bauschutt, Abbruchmaterial, Aushub, Steine, Ziegel, Holz, Strassenaufbruch) abgelagert. Aufgrund der Nähe zu Allschwil sind illegale, unkontrollierte Ablagerungen eher unwahrscheinlich.
contains the three all-excusing words "weitgehend" (mostly) and "eher unwahrscheinlich" (more or less unlikely).

b) Some of the replies on this thread are from people who are very experienced buyers and sellers of property.

c) By now you've had nearly 20 "no" votes, from people with a range of knowledge, experience and expertise, some posts containing Very Big Warnings From Experience. These are the people who would NOT buy this property from you, when you later came to sell it. And since life changes in unexpected ways, buying should always be done with selling in mind, later, even if at the time of purchase you hope to live there happily ever after.
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  #27  
Old 06.11.2020, 21:59
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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a) and that may be too recently for any problems to be properly known, yet too long ago to be sure that there was strict enough monitoring of any environmental and safety rules which may then have been in place. This, especially since this text contains the three all-excusing words "weitgehend" (mostly) and "eher unwahrscheinlich" (more or less unlikely).
Sondermülldeponie Kölliken was in use from 1978 to 1985. Which was an as big disaster as the older one in Bonfol.
https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/prob...unter-der-erde
https://www.beobachter.ch/burger-ver...gift-unter-uns
https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/sanieru...raums/42490056

The landfill site in question is quite big
https://geoview.bl.ch/main/wsgi/?wfs...kbs=2762910027

Here an aerial image from around 2000:
https://geoview.bl.ch/?map_x=2608543...er%20Standorte

It looks like it was a originally a clay pit used by the brickworks (Ziegelei) which was filled up

Here a slider view today vs. the map from around 1976 which shows the fullest extend of the clay pit. Each brown light indicated a height difference of 10 meters.
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?time=None&...ipe_ratio=0.49
My biggest concern would be more the stability of the site than what might be buried there.
It looks like they plan to build more and more towards the edge.
https://www.bzbasel.ch/basel/baselbi...eli-134571805#

Picture from 1937
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...2733.74&zoom=3

Picture from 1954
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...4403.39&zoom=5

Picture from 1964
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...3275.00&zoom=5

Picture from 1976
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...4578.90&zoom=6

Picture from 1982
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...1907.43&zoom=6

Picture from 1988
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...1948.73&zoom=6

Picture from 1994
https://api3.geo.admin.ch/luftbilder...3521.80&zoom=6
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  #28  
Old 06.11.2020, 22:55
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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Hi All, Thanks a lot for your replies!

We contacted the Basel land kanton and got the following answer from them

"Die Deponie «Ziegelei» in Allschwil war eine kontrollierte Inertstoff-Deponie (heute: Deponie-Typ B nach VVEA), die von 1978 bis 1986 betrieben wurde.

Es wurde weitgehend inertes Material (Bauschutt, Abbruchmaterial, Aushub, Steine, Ziegel, Holz, Strassenaufbruch) abgelagert. Aufgrund der Nähe zu Allschwil sind illegale, unkontrollierte Ablagerungen eher unwahrscheinlich.

Kehrricht (Hausmüll) und Industriemüll wurden dort nicht abgelagert.
Der Ablagerungsstandort ist bewertet als «belastet, weder überwachungs- noch sanierungsbedürftig»."


It looks like it was a landfill of building rubble, stones, wood etc.

Would this change your opinions knowing this info?

Asbestos & Tar come to mind...
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  #29  
Old 06.11.2020, 23:24
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

Since most of that stuff will be dug out again for the basement and foundation, I'd go for it.

Last edited by olygirl; 07.11.2020 at 12:20.
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  #30  
Old 07.11.2020, 11:48
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

My childhood home was a council house built on some rubbish. We found all kinds of things in the garden, a car bumper when we dug the pond, pottery, metal.... I am pretty sure it was that which solidified my archaeologist career aspirations.
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  #31  
Old 07.11.2020, 12:26
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

Hi there
I would not touch it, not because I dont believe it would be safe, but because it would be hard to sell.
People buy houses with hearts as much as heads and the idea of land-fill is just bad, look at the sentiments on this thread.
We once had a property with a little bit of land attached, the farmer who owned it before had use one corner to "store" old tractor tires (a small patch of concrete with maybe 20 tires on it). The local authority named it a waste store. We cleared it all out properly but when we sold a number of potential buyers ran away just because of this history.
Buy if you intend to own for ever, else dont
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  #32  
Old 07.11.2020, 12:37
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

I think it's difficult to compare Switzerland's property value with the UK's. A landfill with construction material won't be looked upon as negatively as perhaps abroad.
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  #33  
Old 07.11.2020, 13:52
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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Since most of that stuff will be dug out again for the basement and foundation, I'd go for it.

You are joking, right?
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  #34  
Old 07.11.2020, 14:09
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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I think it's difficult to compare Switzerland's property value with the UK's. A landfill with construction material won't be looked upon as negatively as perhaps abroad.



How do you know it is construction only? Landfill sites were common until fairly recently- and everything went in- everything. But even so, construction also means asbestos and other dangerous materials- mainly from industrial demolition sites.
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  #35  
Old 07.11.2020, 16:23
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

On top of the concerns about the long term stability of the site and its diminished resale value, you might consider the fact that Basel is in an earthquake zone, so your site might be less safe in case of such an event.

Apart from that, I would abstain from planting food in the garden.

Hmm, I think, I wouldn't buy it at all.
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  #36  
Old 07.11.2020, 16:39
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

I would ask for a big discount. Something like 20-40%.
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  #37  
Old 07.11.2020, 17:11
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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I would ask for a big discount. Something like 20-40%.
Quite, the land proportion of the value should have a 50-90% discount.
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  #38  
Old 07.11.2020, 17:17
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

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I think it's difficult to compare Switzerland's property value with the UK's. A landfill with construction material won't be looked upon as negatively as perhaps abroad.
Perhaps. I had taken those posting their "no" votes on this thread to be talking (amongst other things) about their experiences in buying in Switzerland. But then, well, perhaps they weren't, and I wondered whether you could be right.

So I googled specifically within Switzerland and was rather disconcerted at the number of articles that came up about landfills in various places, touching on all sorts of aspects of the matter. With regard to both recreational areas and houses on landfills: about who would discover or report a problem, who would pay for the inspections and who for the work of replenishing the earth, and whether this would be the responsibility of the owners or the municipality, and whether it should be done en masse and to what extent during occupation or with all the owners and tenants out, etc. And whether, when once some private or legal person had ordered such inspections and recovery of the earth, anyone would be responsible for the loss of value of the property, if any, or if the earth were restored, who would benefit from any increase in the value of the property.

Here's a legal magazine, with a reference to Ecosens in Wallisellen ZH. Disclaimer: I know nothing about them, other than the blurb:
A "leading consultancy" for "environmentally relevant problems in connection with real estate. The team has around 30 highly qualified scientists and lawyers..." who deal with matters such as "contaminated sites or environmental due diligence" and who "recommend that all potential buyers expressly ask for information on the topic of "environmental risks" early in their negotiations.
https://www.lawbility.ch/images/cour...guide_2018.pdf

I would want nothing to do with such a purchase, for myself, neither while living in such a property or renting it out, either of which could be disturbed by someone else's decision to deal with the rubbish and restore the earth.

If I owned such a property the knowledge about the landfil would hang over the value of the property like a dark cloud, since there'd always be a moral and a legal duty on me as seller, to declare the position, (since both parties must act in good faith) and the risk that any new potential buyers may react just as those on this thread, or might engage an expert Swiss inspection consultancy like Ecosens.

Last edited by doropfiz; 07.11.2020 at 17:48.
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  #39  
Old 07.11.2020, 17:41
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

Es wurde weitgehend inertes Material (Bauschutt, Abbruchmaterial, Aushub, Steine, Ziegel, Holz, Strassenaufbruch) abgelagert. Aufgrund der Nähe zu Allschwil sind illegale, unkontrollierte Ablagerungen eher unwahrscheinlichh.

With the above statement from the Gemeinde, I'd definitely feel more reassured about using the former landfill as a building plot. We built a house in the 90's and most of the lot was dug out for the house. We had more problems with water.

This is just my opinion.
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  #40  
Old 07.11.2020, 17:46
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Re: Would you buy a property constructed on a Landfill site?

... and it is that very sentence, with "weitgehend" and "eher unwahrscheinlich" which I find to be just the opposite of reassuring. More like wannabe reassuring, written by a lawyer whose primary aim is to prevent the municipality's being held liable for anything.

That's why, as I see it, the real question is:
"Would you buy an old landfill? It's got a property constructed on the top."
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