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Old 05.11.2020, 13:30
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New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

Can anyone advise what the latest building regulations in Switzerland says ( if anything ); about requirements for builders to provide power supplies to parking points, to allow a charger to be connected in new build properties ?
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Old 05.11.2020, 13:49
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Can anyone advise what the latest building regulations in Switzerland says ( if anything ); about requirements for builders to provide power supplies to parking points, to allow a charger to be connected in new build properties ?
I am sure it's optional & potentially a very expensive option based on how many people want to charge at the same time & the speed of the chargers.
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Old 05.11.2020, 14:23
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

Yes. I was more concerned about the cabling infrastructure rather than a charging wall box. And the aspects of regulations by the authorities requiring this provision from builders, given they way the world is heading in this respect.
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Old 05.11.2020, 14:24
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Yes. I was more concerned about the cabling infrastructure rather than a charging wall box. And the aspects of regulations by the authorities requiring this provision from builders, given they way the world is heading in this respect.
Provision would be a cable channel.
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Old 05.11.2020, 14:27
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Can anyone advise what the latest building regulations in Switzerland says ( if anything ); about requirements for builders to provide power supplies to parking points, to allow a charger to be connected in new build properties ?
https://www.emobility-schweiz.ch/ At the bottom of this page, there's a guide for residential installations of chargers. Includes relevant engineering norms (SIA), Swiss norms (SN), ISO norms for fire risk, noise, etc.


If you need an engineer for further questions, there's the company that collaborated in the making of the guide: IFEC.....AFRY Schweiz since last April.
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Old 05.11.2020, 14:43
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

The challenge that I heard from an Architect friend is buildings are serviced with just enough juice for the normal needs plus a little margin.

If you get to a point where 20 renters/owners want a high speed (or even a normal speed) charging point at the parking place in the underground the building system will not be enough. And in any case where someone is asking for this in a PPE situation, no owners will want to pay for someone else if they do not have the same benefit (even if not used). Imagine the discussion if owner A gets the last bit of available juice to install his personal high speed charger for his Tesla. It will not happen. This means in most cases a 20 place fit-out vs. a one place installation.

Then you say, "let's just run a line to the connection point on the street". At the cost of the owners of course. Problem is, the connection point is probably maxed out based on the normal needs of the street that it services. Then you have to put high capacity underground lines to the next available point that services several of these connection points. And with everyone wanting extra juice from a system that was installed 40+ years ago. Good luck.

This is not a simple question of just installing some charging points.
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Old 05.11.2020, 16:32
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

The home owners in our Quartier are discussing installing chargers in our 80s built 50-some space common underground garage. The cost per owner is 3-10K, proposal/provider dependent.

Now I imagine that a new build will be less expensive than retrofitting an older garage.

The largest part of the cost is that we have to bring in an almost industrial power supply to meet the number of parking spaces.

IIRC 'normal' power supply can handle 5, maybe 10 cars. The alternative to bringing in the massive power supply at great cost is a charging rota - which no one wants. (Imagine laundry room wars upped an order of magnitude!)

Bottom line, if you own a free standing single family garage installing one station is no big deal. Installation for an entire garage is a big deal.

Even if the new-build developer or a landlord pays to install the charging stations ultimately you will pay. Expect to see the cost of each space increase proportionately.
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Old 05.11.2020, 16:38
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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I am sure it's optional & potentially a very expensive option
Such a pity Switzerland doesn't make it obligatory at very least for new buildings (maybe with financial support). Would make much more sense and be a real help for EVs, not like the extemption of road-tax...
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Old 05.11.2020, 16:44
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Such a pity Switzerland doesn't make it obligatory at very least for new buildings (maybe with financial support). Would make much more sense and be a real help for EVs, not like the extemption of road-tax...
The power supply just is not available to do this. Why on earth should this be subsidised? It's not as if Switzerland makes electric cars & currently petrol/diesel is highly taxed. Electric cars are not particularly green, it depends on ultimate service life of the cars & batteries.
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Old 05.11.2020, 16:51
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Such a pity Switzerland doesn't make it obligatory at very least for new buildings (maybe with financial support). Would make much more sense and be a real help for EVs, not like the extemption of road-tax...
Not sure about that, the costs of the whole development increase. It would be fair if tenants paid more more for parking places with a charger compared to normal parking places. If not, all tenants (even those without cars) would subsidize the costs of installing parking places with chargers through higher rental prices.

Today, is there a price difference between a parking with a charger and a normal parking? The day EV owners show they want to pay more a parking place with chargers, that day the problem is solved.
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Old 05.11.2020, 16:55
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Not sure about that, the costs of the whole development increase. It would be fair if tenants paid more more for parking places with a charger compared to normal parking places. If not, all tenants (even those without cars) would subsidize the costs of installing parking places with chargers through higher rental prices.

Today, is there a price difference between a parking with a charger and a normal parking? The day EV owners show they want to pay more a parking place with chargers, that day the problem is solved.
Solar charging must be the ultimate goal, with the roof / bonnet collecting the energy. Going forward Outside parking spaces could cost more than underground garages, plug in charging may just be a temporary requirement.
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Old 05.11.2020, 17:46
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Why on earth should this be subsidised?
There is another thread "why should I pay for your kids?"... Short answer: Maybe because you don't live alone in a cave? See also: society, aka why airlines get state aid if you never fly, etc?

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Today, is there a price difference between a parking with a charger and a normal parking? The day EV owners show they want to pay more a parking place with chargers, that day the problem is solved.
There is usually not even an option to pay more.
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Old 05.11.2020, 18:14
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

What an interesting question...

Organizations with fleets of electric vehicles often have a charging management system installed. The direction that these systems are going is such that they'll be able to make sure the available power isn't maxed out, they can stager the charging so that you don't have a huge power jump when all the vehicles are plugged in, perhaps after rush hour and they can make sure each vehicle is charged up and ready to go based on when it is planned to be used next, they can even optimize to charge at times when the power rates are lowest.

This'll be a really difficult question for apartment buildings in the future in which each individual has their own interests. With one company and a fleet, there is just one interested party.

What makes things more difficult is that in some cases your electric bill is not only based on how much you actually consume, but also based on the maximum amount of power you request to have available --> this charge can be pretty hefty, so it doesn't really make sense to pay now for capacity that you may never need.

Anyway, I have no idea what apartment buildings should do to prepare for the future, but as a first step... preparing cable channels seems to be a great idea. Perhaps they could also prepare space for any fire detection / fire protection equipment that would also be required.
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Old 05.11.2020, 18:19
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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If you need an engineer for further questions, there's the company that collaborated in the making of the guide: IFEC.....AFRY Schweiz since last April.

We have engaged AFRY in the construction of our new building and have a meeting with them next week on this very point (among others). I'll let you know what they say.
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Old 05.11.2020, 18:23
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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There is another thread "why should I pay for your kids?"... Short answer: Maybe because you don't live alone in a cave? See also: society, aka why airlines get state aid if you never fly, etc?

There is usually not even an option to pay more.
Clean transportation is already subsidized, it's called public transport. Private cars are a luxury and the fuel source does not change this.

About a mietwohnung mit ladestation-parkplatzs.....they are starting to be offered: https://www.ekz.ch/blue/de/wissen/20...parkplatz.html As I inferred, the tenant must be willing to pay a little bit more for the parking place to cover the costs of the charging station.

Big real estate companies say the demand for apartments that include a parking with charging is minimal (June 2020), but it is expected to increase and then they will invest when necessary https://www.blick.ch/wirtschaft/elek...d15682188.html

So, when tenants start to ask and pay for charging stations, they will be installed. No need for government intervention. I think the system is working, the price signal for parking places with recharge points is there, it's just that infrastructure development takes time. I wouldn't be surprised that in 5 years a lot of rental apartments have the option to rent a parking place to recharge an EV.
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Old 05.11.2020, 18:45
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

I moved into a newbuild with about 50 parking spaces almost 3 years ago.

This is one of the options we could choose. Seems they have a central thing that will allow us to have the high powered charger, and we had to pay a few hundred if we want a socket at our lot (I can't remember the exact price, but it was definitely below 1k).

We opted for one which is installed in between our two parking lots. Looking around the garage, I think there are about 10-20 lots with the socket.

I don't know much about the socket, it's red with lots of holes and I think it fits the Tesla cable. We have a variety in the garage though - a number of Teslas, Volvos, BMW & Mini, Audi and a few weeks ago, someone got a Merc SUV plug-in and told me that they just had to swap out the socket and install this charging box as the "power is already there".
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Old 05.11.2020, 19:12
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Clean transportation is already subsidized, it's called public transport. Private cars are a luxury and the fuel source does not change this.
Public transport is not an option for everybody / every use. Yes, it's a luxury and users must pay the price. State's task is to motivate people to make it sustainable. If you think the fuel source is not important you are clearly putting your head into the sand.
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Old 05.11.2020, 20:04
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Public transport is not an option for everybody / every use. Yes, it's a luxury and users must pay the price. State's task is to motivate people to make it sustainable. If you think the fuel source is not important you are clearly putting your head into the sand.
If you think that electric cars are sustainable, you're putting your head up your...

It'd be better to pay everyone who doesn't have a car than to subsidize people with electric cars, if the environment is truly of concern.
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Old 05.11.2020, 20:16
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

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Solar charging must be the ultimate goal, with the roof / bonnet collecting the energy. Going forward Outside parking spaces could cost more than underground garages, plug in charging may just be a temporary requirement.
We going to need a bigger sun, and longer bonnets
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Old 05.11.2020, 20:20
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Re: New Building Regs and Electric Car Charging

FYI. There are 2 types of charging - AC and DC. All domestic charging will be AC and with a 3 phase supply the maximum is about 11kWh. This also the maximum a Tesla Model 3 will take from AC. Many EVs can only charge well below this.

(With DC charging (eg at a Supercharger) 150kWh is possible and 250kWh with V3 Superchargers which don’t exist in Europe yet.)

The Model 3 has a 75kWh battery pack to give at best 500kms range, though you never drive to empty! An overnight charge of 20kWh would give you about 133kms.

This fine if only you are charging! If there are 20 other vehicles charging overnight at the same time there will be trouble.

It would not be a difficult matter to specify wiring for a wall connector from a 3 phase supply that would be adequate for all current EVs. BUT be prepared to pay. I would have thought with a new build you should pay CHF500 to 700 for the channeling and hook up - plus your wall connector.

I now have a 9.6kWhp solar system on the roof and don’t do much kilometreage. So I can set the Tesla to charge at only 5kWh instead of 11. I leave the car plugged in and when the sun shines and over 5kW is being produced, I turn on charging from my phone’s app.

Hopefully all new builds will include solar panels...
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