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-   -   Can I move flats (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/301416-can-i-move-flats.html)

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 25.11.2020 19:32

I recently moved to Zurich which has been positive and my flat mate is exceptional. However I am really struggling with the noise. Since joining there have been major roadworks and got a letter in post saying the building next door is going to be demolished. Work has started.

On top of this, new neighbours have moved into the flat and are quite noisy. All told it is starting to have a material impact on my quality of life. Next week I am due to work from home for the rest of the year so this is only going to get worse.

Do I have any recourse for leaving my apartment? I took over the rent from someone else, so my name is alongside the flat mate. I am not sure what the rules are. No one inspected the place when I joined so how do they assess condition if I give notice?

Would appreciate any help as I am struggling. Thank you.

And for that matter can I give notice or is it minimum year contracts in Switzerland. (Yes the fault is mine for not doing due diligence before I moved..)

blackbird 25.11.2020 22:00

Re: Can I move flats
 
Depends what notice period in mentioned in the contract.

or you can try to have a conversation about the demolition with your landlord.

But when they work only between 7 am and 4 pm i don't see a chance to
quit the contract because of the noise from the demolition.

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 25.11.2020 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird (Post 3243028)
Depends what notice period in mentioned in the contract.

or you can try to have a conversation about the demolition with your landlord.

But when they work only between 7 am and 4 pm i don't see a chance to
quit the contract because of the noise from the demolition.


It is with a housing agency it looks like, some kind of immobilien.



The contract I received was only 2 pages long and using google translate shows it a contract transfer from the previous person (from 2013) to me and the flat mate.


So I guess I need to ask for the actual contract that I have signed. Why do I have a feeling I am going to be screwed...

Thank you for the help by the way Blackbird.

Medea Fleecestealer 25.11.2020 23:54

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3243055)
It is with a housing agency it looks like, some kind of immobilien.



The contract I received was only 2 pages long and using google translate shows it a contract transfer from the previous person (from 2013) to me and the flat mate.


So I guess I need to ask for the actual contract that I have signed. Why do I have a feeling I am going to be screwed...

If you can find someone to take over the lease then you can leave whenever you plan to.

eairicbloodaxe 25.11.2020 23:57

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3242927)
I recently moved to Zurich which has been positive and my flat mate is exceptional. However I am really struggling with the noise. Since joining there have been major roadworks and got a letter in post saying the building next door is going to be demolished. Work has started.

On top of this, new neighbours have moved into the flat and are quite noisy. All told it is starting to have a material impact on my quality of life. Next week I am due to work from home for the rest of the year so this is only going to get worse.

Do I have any recourse for leaving my apartment? I took over the rent from someone else, so my name is alongside the flat mate. I am not sure what the rules are. No one inspected the place when I joined so how do they assess condition if I give notice?

Would appreciate any help as I am struggling. Thank you.

And for that matter can I give notice or is it minimum year contracts in Switzerland. (Yes the fault is mine for not doing due diligence before I moved..)


I feel your pain. I think it is a Swiss thing. The noise of chidren or music or washing machines is complained about... but construction just goes on and on and on and on and on.

I have been here 6 years and there has NEVER been a time where there has not been construction noise around me. Where my flat is, they decided to knock down the development of flats next door and build new ones... a year to demolish, 2 years for the build, and it will be another year for the fitout. Before that, they rebuilt the local station - complete with all night working - for about 2 years Where I work, they refurbished the gym next door for a year... then redid the floor below us... then knocked down and rebuilt across the street.


Earplugs. Or go deaf.


I understand that even in the countryside the cows are noisy.


Kind regards




Ian

Landers 26.11.2020 00:58

Re: Can I move flats
 
I don't think you get any special dispensation in this situation but you'll need to check your contract, especially as there are two of you in the flat. We don't know if it's the both of you on it or only one of you. If you're both on it, what to do then if your flatmate doesn't want to move out?

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 26.11.2020 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3243060)
If you can find someone to take over the lease then you can leave whenever you plan to.

But who would take a flat over when it sounds and looks like a WWI trench 10 metres from the house!

I guess I need to get in contact with the housing agency here to see my options.Since 7am there is a jackhammer or something making the place buzz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3243069)
I don't think you get any special dispensation in this situation but you'll need to check your contract, especially as there are two of you in the flat. We don't know if it's the both of you on it or only one of you. If you're both on it, what to do then if your flatmate doesn't want to move out?

I think we are both on the contract, me replacing the previous person who started the contract in 2013.

Axa 26.11.2020 12:03

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3242927)
I recently moved to Zurich which has been positive and my flat mate is exceptional. However I am really struggling with the noise. Since joining there have been major roadworks and got a letter in post saying the building next door is going to be demolished. Work has started.

On top of this, new neighbours have moved into the flat and are quite noisy. All told it is starting to have a material impact on my quality of life. Next week I am due to work from home for the rest of the year so this is only going to get worse.

Do I have any recourse for leaving my apartment? I took over the rent from someone else, so my name is alongside the flat mate. I am not sure what the rules are. No one inspected the place when I joined so how do they assess condition if I give notice?

Would appreciate any help as I am struggling. Thank you.

And for that matter can I give notice or is it minimum year contracts in Switzerland. (Yes the fault is mine for not doing due diligence before I moved..)

Shit happens. I endured the replacement of more than a century old wastewater pipes in front of my old flat. Noise started at 7:00 sharp and the lovely guys had a coffee break from 8h00 to 9h00.....they could have had coffee and croissant at a nice place at 7h00 and start to work at 8h00 but pretending to be productive matters :(

The good news is that the demolition work is going to be superfast (weeks) as opposed to roadwork that can last years.

I guess the least complicate, albeit slow, way to leave is to find a replacement tenant (nachmieter).

Landers 26.11.2020 14:11

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3243195)
Shit happens. I endured the replacement of more than a century old wastewater pipes in front of my old flat. Noise started at 7:00 sharp and the lovely guys had a coffee break from 8h00 to 9h00.....they could have had coffee and croissant at a nice place at 7h00 and start to work at 8h00 but pretending to be productive matters :(

This is what the guys next to me do too. Run some power tools at 7:00 until 7:30 then we don't hear anything at all for the rest of the day.

LuganoPirate 27.11.2020 12:17

Re: Can I move flats
 
You could try for a rent reduction for the period of the construction. The landlord can then claim against the builders. Likewise if there is dirt on your terrace or windows the builder is liable to clean it up. They have insurance for this type of thing and they also include in their offer to their client an amount for eventual compensation claims.

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 30.11.2020 09:47

Re: Can I move flats
 
Ok, the plot thickens...

Turns out I am part of a rolling contract as I signed my name to an existing one (never saw this only a form to sign) that has been on going for years.

Reading around this also makes me liable for any damage incurred on the property? The place is hardly in good condition, its pretty old and shabby.

I guess I am going to be doubly screwed on trying to leave and also losing my deposit? This could be an expensive mistake.....

The ideal world would be to leave and take the flatmate as I trust and like him a lot and find somewhere different (that is, if he also wanted to move). But I feel like I might just have to grin and bear it if it means losing deposit as well...

newtoswitz 30.11.2020 10:10

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3244482)
Ok, the plot thickens...

Turns out I am part of a rolling contract as I signed my name to an existing one (never saw this only a form to sign) that has been on going for years.

Reading around this also makes me liable for any damage incurred on the property? The place is hardly in good condition, its pretty old and shabby.

I guess I am going to be doubly screwed on trying to leave and also losing my deposit? This could be an expensive mistake.....

The ideal world would be to leave and take the flatmate as I trust and like him a lot and find somewhere different (that is, if he also wanted to move). But I feel like I might just have to grin and bear it if it means losing deposit as well...

Damage is not the same as normal wear and tear, as per many other threads you are not responsible for that and there is a clear scale of expected lifespan for most items.

You should have an inventory from when you moved in, and it is normal to take photos or notes to log the condition of things on entry for exactly this reason.

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 30.11.2020 10:37

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3244490)
Damage is not the same as normal wear and tear, as per many other threads you are not responsible for that and there is a clear scale of expected lifespan for most items.

You should have an inventory from when you moved in, and it is normal to take photos or notes to log the condition of things on entry for exactly this reason.

The whole place is pretty tired (eg the wooden floors have been there a long time), the kitchen is very old fashioned (not that I care) and there are some marks on the wall were TV was obviously mounted etc. Basically the place was tired.

I presumed that this was known etc. I did not receive anything when I moved in, except for an application form and a statement from the immobilien that I was now registered with the flat along with flatmate.

So without this inventory I guess it is their word against my word? This will be a right kicker as I have barely moved in and haven't done a single thing to the place...

olygirl 30.11.2020 11:39

Re: Can I move flats
 
Flats are hard to find and when a cheaper flat is on the market, people often avoid researching why the rent is so low...until they move in and then the horror begins, much like a horror movie.

Axa 30.11.2020 12:07

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3244498)
The whole place is pretty tired (eg the wooden floors have been there a long time), the kitchen is very old fashioned (not that I care) and there are some marks on the wall were TV was obviously mounted etc. Basically the place was tired.

I presumed that this was known etc. I did not receive anything when I moved in, except for an application form and a statement from the immobilien that I was now registered with the flat along with flatmate.

So without this inventory I guess it is their word against my word? This will be a right kicker as I have barely moved in and haven't done a single thing to the place...

Floors have a lifetime. You're not responsible if the floors have exceeded their lifetime. Same for the kitchen. Walls are only gypsum, add some water and fill the holes....probably cheaper than buying a beer in a bar. And who knows, maybe the holes were there even before your flatmate arrived.

If you did not damage anything, your deposit is safe. In the worst case you could use your 3rd party liability insurance to cover some flat damage and run away from it.

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 30.11.2020 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3244530)
Flats are hard to find and when a cheaper flat is on the market, people often avoid researching why the rent is so low...until they move in and then the horror begins, much like a horror movie.

My rent is not low. I did not rent the cheapest by a long way!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3244545)
Floors have a lifetime. You're not responsible if the floors have exceeded their lifetime. Same for the kitchen. Walls are only gypsum, add some water and fill the holes....probably cheaper than buying a beer in a bar. And who knows, maybe the holes were there even before your flatmate arrived.

If you did not damage anything, your deposit is safe. In the worst case you could use your 3rd party liability insurance to cover some flat damage and run away from it.

But I have no idea of what the reasonable length of the life span is.

I might mention to the immobilien that I wish to see the contract and also the inventory. Once i have the contract surely it will have the details.

Again at 7am this morning the noise..........

Axa 30.11.2020 17:07

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3244660)
But I have no idea of what the reasonable length of the life span is.

I might mention to the immobilien that I wish to see the contract and also the inventory. Once i have the contract surely it will have the details.

Again at 7am this morning the noise..........


The EF knows, German and French versions =) https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...-cantonal.html

Thenoiseisdrivingmemad 01.12.2020 16:26

Re: Can I move flats
 
That is insane, things like 40 years for the floors?.

Anyway, the place is old, condition is mediocre and I suspect has been for a long time.

I am also an idiot for apparently having signed a contract extension which means I am now locked into original terms.

So are these valid options?

1) Leave the contract and face losing my 4,000+ deposit potentially. Can I do this when someone else is on the paper with me?

2) Find someone else to give the contract to? Unlikely I am guessing as winter and they will see the same problems as I do....

Axa 01.12.2020 16:56

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenoiseisdrivingmemad (Post 3245034)
That is insane, things like 40 years for the floors?.

Anyway, the place is old, condition is mediocre and I suspect has been for a long time.

I am also an idiot for apparently having signed a contract extension which means I am now locked into original terms.

So are these valid options?

1) Leave the contract and face losing my 4,000+ deposit potentially. Can I do this when someone else is on the paper with me?

2) Find someone else to give the contract to? Unlikely I am guessing as winter and they will see the same problems as I do....

Two flats ago, the landlord confessed the bathtub was 60 years old. When the clothes washing machine broke down in the same flat, the landlord invited the guy running the appliances shop in town. This guy just said to the landlord: you bought me this machine 17 years ago, cannot believe it's still running. We had a good laugh and the landlord agreed to buy a new washing machine.

So, these things happen. Even if the tables consider long lifetimes, landlords keep renting until the apartments are literally falling apart.

Losing the deposit is not that common. Of course, it might happen but it should not be something preventing you from taking a decision. Other people may put more attention to documenting the state of the flat when arriving and that's it.

newtoswitz 01.12.2020 19:43

Re: Can I move flats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3245044)
Two flats ago, the landlord confessed the bathtub was 60 years old. When the clothes washing machine broke down in the same flat, the landlord invited the guy running the appliances shop in town. This guy just said to the landlord: you bought me this machine 17 years ago, cannot believe it's still running. We had a good laugh and the landlord agreed to buy a new washing machine.

So, these things happen. Even if the tables consider long lifetimes, landlords keep renting until the apartments are literally falling apart.

Losing the deposit is not that common. Of course, it might happen but it should not be something preventing you from taking a decision. Other people may put more attention to documenting the state of the flat when arriving and that's it.

The enamel bath in our house was is mint condition after 45 years; I only replaced it because the bottom was too rounded to allow fitting a shower safely. I would have sold it except it didn't fit through the non-standard narrow door.

I've seen bathtubs being used as cattle troughs where I thought - "that's a classic, should be in a brocki not a field".


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