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Old 03.12.2020, 18:12
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landlord registered a debt

Hello everyone,

I left the old apartment at the end of March, 2018. Since then I have disputes with the landlord as the landlord insisted that I should pay 2k CHF for the damage.

We couldn't reach an agreement and then we went to the court and I won the case 100% (I don't have to pay anything. The landlord has to pay me for the lawyer fee). However, the landlord decided to push the case to the higher court even she doesn't have much chance of winning it.

The issue is that the landlord has registered a debt for me (Betreibung) since 2019 which causes a lot troubles, e.g. I cannot apply for a C permit. My lawyer told me she is not sure if the debt can be removed at this moment. Also due to COVID19, the trial process is extremely slow because my case has really low priority.

Can I go to the kreisbüro with the current judgement from the court and remove the debt registration?

Any feedback? Thanks a lot
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Old 03.12.2020, 18:19
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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Hello everyone,

I left the old apartment at the end of March, 2018. Since then I have disputes with the landlord as the landlord insisted that I should pay 2k CHF for the damage.

We couldn't reach an agreement and then we went to the court and I won the case 100% (I don't have to pay anything. The landlord has to pay me for the lawyer fee). However, the landlord decided to push the case to the higher court even she doesn't have much chance of winning it.

The issue is that the landlord has registered a debt for me (Betreibung) since 2019 which causes a lot troubles, e.g. I cannot apply for a C permit. My lawyer told me she is not sure if the debt can be removed at this moment. Also due to COVID19, the trial process is extremely slow because my case has really low priority.

Can I go to the kreisbüro with the current judgement from the court and remove the debt registration?

Any feedback? Thanks a lot
Why not try by asking?
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Old 03.12.2020, 18:26
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Re: landlord registered a debt

yes, I plan to go to the kreisbüro to ask. I just want to ask here first in case someone already knows. I can only go to the kreisbüro next week. If it's a definitely no, then I skip the little trip to the Kreisbüro
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Old 03.12.2020, 18:59
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Re: landlord registered a debt

Is the betriebungsamt located at the kreisburo? Otherwise they will just point you at the betriebungsamt office.
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Old 03.12.2020, 19:03
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Re: landlord registered a debt

You can find out where it is here:

https://www.betreibungsinspektorat-zh.ch/deu/geo.php
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Old 03.12.2020, 19:37
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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Hello everyone,

I left the old apartment at the end of March, 2018. Since then I have disputes with the landlord as the landlord insisted that I should pay 2k CHF for the damage.

We couldn't reach an agreement and then we went to the court and I won the case 100% (I don't have to pay anything. The landlord has to pay me for the lawyer fee). However, the landlord decided to push the case to the higher court even she doesn't have much chance of winning it.

The issue is that the landlord has registered a debt for me (Betreibung) since 2019 which causes a lot troubles, e.g. I cannot apply for a C permit. My lawyer told me she is not sure if the debt can be removed at this moment. Also due to COVID19, the trial process is extremely slow because my case has really low priority.

Can I go to the kreisbüro with the current judgement from the court and remove the debt registration?

Any feedback? Thanks a lot
The only one who can get it removed is the one who initialized it.

I personally would still go there and give it a try with the court-result. At least they might be able to advise you further.
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Old 03.12.2020, 19:40
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Re: landlord registered a debt

I assume you've aready appealed the Betreibung and that's where the court judgement came from?
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Old 03.12.2020, 19:48
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Re: landlord registered a debt

The OP might wish to see this Swiss Authorities Online (ch.ch) page called "How to have information removed from the debt enforcement register" (English):

https://www.ch.ch/en/deleting-debt-enforcement-record/
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Old 03.12.2020, 21:16
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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The OP might wish to see this Swiss Authorities Online (ch.ch) page called "How to have information removed from the debt enforcement register" (English):

https://www.ch.ch/en/deleting-debt-enforcement-record/
This bit looks good:
You cannot make a request asking for the summons to be deleted from the register (e.g. because you did not file an objection notice) and the creditor does not agree to drop the debt enforcement proceedings:

The notice will remain in the debt enforcement register for five years. If you wish to have the notice removed from the register before the end of these five years, you must apply to the court responsible and demonstrate in civil proceedings that the debt never existed or that it was non-enforceable at the time the payment summons was issued.
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Old 03.12.2020, 21:17
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Re: landlord registered a debt

OP should have been informed already at the time entry was being prepared for and there is objection possibility on the reverse side of the document .

Simply sing and state you do not agree on this entry and send back.

I had it once and was called up to show evidence - which I did via printouts of emails etc - and entry was not put onto the system - and legal case would have to be started by the 'creditor' - which dropped the case right there.

The way debt-office is used often is to threaten people that need clean entry to pay $$ they do not owe ...
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Old 03.12.2020, 21:38
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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This bit looks good:
You cannot make a request asking for the summons to be deleted from the register (e.g. because you did not file an objection notice) and the creditor does not agree to drop the debt enforcement proceedings:
The part "cannot make a request" means the situation where the receiver is not allowed to make a request. If the OP did object then none of the situations apply. I don't see how this is "good".



I would guess what has happened is the Breibung was made, the OP objected, then it went to court and the Betreibung bringer was found to have no case. In this situation I would have thought the record should be wiped. If the Betreibung bringer wants to take the matter to a different court I would have thought this was outside of the Betreibung system but I don't know, maybe the system allows for such an appeal.
Anyway, the OP can speak to the Betreibung people and ask them.
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Old 04.12.2020, 12:29
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I assume you've aready appealed the Betreibung and that's where the court judgement came from?
thanks Landers, yes that's in the decision from the court.

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The OP might wish to see this Swiss Authorities Online (ch.ch) page called "How to have information removed from the debt enforcement register" (English):

https://www.ch.ch/en/deleting-debt-enforcement-record/
thanks Mullhollander, the link is very helpful. The landlord filed the debt Betreibung without warning. Then I found it out and hired a lawyer and we are in the legal process now. I think my lawyer told me I cannot remove it before the court gave a decision. So I didn't file an objection. Will definitely go to the Kreisbüro and file an objection if I could.

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This bit looks good:
You cannot make a request asking for the summons to be deleted from the register (e.g. because you did not file an objection notice) and the creditor does not agree to drop the debt enforcement proceedings:

The notice will remain in the debt enforcement register for five years. If you wish to have the notice removed from the register before the end of these five years, you must apply to the court responsible and demonstrate in civil proceedings that the debt never existed or that it was non-enforceable at the time the payment summons was issued.
thanks, NotAllThere. Yes, that part sounds favorable for me. As I'm already in civil process and have a favorable decision from the court. It's just the landlord wants to push it to the higher court. I will try to see if they can temporarily lift the Betreibung until the higher court gives final decision.

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OP should have been informed already at the time entry was being prepared for and there is objection possibility on the reverse side of the document .

Simply sing and state you do not agree on this entry and send back.

I had it once and was called up to show evidence - which I did via printouts of emails etc - and entry was not put onto the system - and legal case would have to be started by the 'creditor' - which dropped the case right there.

The way debt-office is used often is to threaten people that need clean entry to pay $$ they do not owe ...
thanks Landers. Yes, this whole Betreibung thing is super annoying. The landlord filed the Betreibung without warning. But I didn't receive any mail notification from the landlord nor from the Kreisbüro. I was not aware of this for a long time until I started to apply for my C permit.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.12.2020 at 18:30. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 04.12.2020, 12:55
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Re: landlord registered a debt

I find this system both ridiculous and terrifying! Someone can basically stuff up your life just because they feel like it ... & you can do nothing
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Old 04.12.2020, 13:19
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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The landlord filed the Betreibung without warning. But I didn't receive any mail notification from the landlord nor from the Kreisbüro. I was not aware of this for a long time until I started to apply for my C permit.
The Betreibung is handled by the Betreibungsamt. The Kreisbüro or the Commune has nothing to do with it. Never the less you should have got a very formal notification about the Betreibung. Once you got that notice there are strict formalities which have tob followed and time limits which must be observed.
See: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

Question is: Why did you not get this formal notice or what happened with it?

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Old 04.12.2020, 13:25
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Re: landlord registered a debt

I had a similar issue with a landlord, went to arbitration, decision for me. No escalation from the landlord, but he refused to withdraw the betreibung.

I showed the court docs at the betreibungsamt, they withdrew it and sent the bill plus service charges to the landlord!

Unfortunately, you may be stuck until your case plays out. You have my sympathy, sounds like you caught a right bastard.
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Old 04.12.2020, 15:32
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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I find this system both ridiculous and terrifying! Someone can basically stuff up your life just because they feel like it ... & you can do nothing
I assume that if it was truly malicious, the complainer must have lied on the application and therefore would be in significant trouble for that.

The problem is more in cases like this, where there is a dispute that could go either way.
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Old 04.12.2020, 16:02
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Re: landlord registered a debt

You should have made opposition as soon as you received it, and then on the same form have made a counter claim against her.

I have a feeling you will now have to wait it out but you do have two avenues to explore.

1. A direct threat. Your lawyer writes to her letting her know what the costs to her will be if / when she loses, and that in addition you will seek substantial damages against her for losses caused. If her lawyer and her lawyer know each other, they may be able to persuade her to drop the case and settle.

However, it is possible she has a juridical insurance in which case the legal cost won't bother her and it may go all the way to the TF. It can then last 10 years before it's decided.

2. It depends on what it is worth to you in time, upfront expenses etc. You could have your lawyer speak to hers, or even directly, and propose a compromise that you will, without admitting liability, pay half to have it settled. It's not correct I agree but as the proper procedures were not followed in the first place putting principal aside may be the best option for you.
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Old 04.12.2020, 18:29
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The Betreibung is handled by the Betreibungsamt. The Kreisbüro or the Commune has nothing to do with it. Never the less you should have got a very formal notification about the Betreibung. Once you got that notice there are strict formalities which have tob followed and time limits which must be observed.
See: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

Question is: Why did you not get this formal notice or what happened with it?

Attachment 140831
thanks aSwissInTheUS. It's also very strange for me that I didn't get this letter. I'm 100% sure I didn't get this letter. I found out the debt thing when I tried to apply for my C permit last year. The person in Betreibungsamt didn't mentioned anything like I could object it. My lawyer told me that I couldn't remove it unless we got the court decision. Good to know that the Betreibungsamt is responsible for this. It is in the same building as the Kreisbüro for me. I will definitely ask when I go to the Betreibungsamt.

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I had a similar issue with a landlord, went to arbitration, decision for me. No escalation from the landlord, but he refused to withdraw the betreibung.

I showed the court docs at the betreibungsamt, they withdrew it and sent the bill plus service charges to the landlord!

Unfortunately, you may be stuck until your case plays out. You have my sympathy, sounds like you caught a right bastard.
thanks, Occasional_Canadian. Yes, my previous landlord is a private landlord, very unprofessional from my point of view. Unfortunately I have to deal with her. During the arbitration phrase, we accepted what the judge proposed. She declined. Then during the first court, we accepted what the judge proposed to settle it down, but she refused. Then we got the decision that we won the case 100%. But again, she wants to push it to the higher court. It's very sad but there is nothing I can do to stop her.

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You should have made opposition as soon as you received it, and then on the same form have made a counter claim against her.

I have a feeling you will now have to wait it out but you do have two avenues to explore.

1. A direct threat. Your lawyer writes to her letting her know what the costs to her will be if / when she loses, and that in addition you will seek substantial damages against her for losses caused. If her lawyer and her lawyer know each other, they may be able to persuade her to drop the case and settle.

However, it is possible she has a juridical insurance in which case the legal cost won't bother her and it may go all the way to the TF. It can then last 10 years before it's decided.

2. It depends on what it is worth to you in time, upfront expenses etc. You could have your lawyer speak to hers, or even directly, and propose a compromise that you will, without admitting liability, pay half to have it settled. It's not correct I agree but as the proper procedures were not followed in the first place putting principal aside may be the best option for you.
Thanks, LuganoPirate. We've already shown our willingness to reach an agreement with the landlord to settle this down. However, the landlord doesn't want to make ANY compromise. For any proposal except her own, she refuses which leads to an impasse. For me, the trial is the only solution.

Last edited by xuan1918; 04.12.2020 at 18:58. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 04.12.2020, 18:56
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Re: landlord registered a debt

I just read the court decision. Very strange, in this case, I'm the plaintiff and the landlord is the defendant. But according to some posts in this thread, normally I should be the defendant and the landlord should be the plaintiff
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Old 04.12.2020, 21:24
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Re: landlord registered a debt

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thanks aSwissInTheUS. It's also very strange for me that I didn't get this letter. I'm 100% sure I didn't get this letter. I found out the debt thing when I tried to apply for my C permit last year. The person in Betreibungsamt didn't mentioned anything like I could object it. My lawyer told me that I couldn't remove it unless we got the court decision. Good to know that the Betreibungsamt is responsible for this. It is in the same building as the Kreisbüro for me. I will definitely ask when I go to the Betreibungsamt.
Hmm, is it possible your address was still listed at the old address, and the landlord simply took the notification letter and destroyed it?

Anyway, I hope it all gets sorted out in your favour soon - it sounds like you're in the right, and the landlord's out to rip you off as much as possible.
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