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  #21  
Old 04.02.2021, 00:51
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

I guess the new pump is weaker on purpose.
If you can reach 22°C, the heating is fine.

In my flat, the floors are all cold. But I think most of the heat comes from the neighbours. I didn't see any flow indicators on the tubes, just the faucets, so I avoid touching that stuff.
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  #22  
Old 04.02.2021, 01:30
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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That’s a good question. I think those are oil heating systems but electric versus hot water no idea. Additional question to be asked .

What do you think about the apartment itself?

https://www.homegate.ch/buy/30008732...os!m2-sh!md-ow


I was informed by agent that:

“The heating is a central district heating system, so the heat distribution in the floors is via hot water.

The heating system was replaced in 2004. Lifespan is around 30 - 35 years.“
The issue I would be concerned about is whether you have controls to adjust the heating in
the rooms to suit your needs.

What is the cental heating system, oil or heatpump? Some parts of Döttingen have Refuna. What are the heating costs per year and how are they calculated? Per m2 or are there individual meters? With older windows and original insulation a new system is still going to be costly.

I would also ask about the "renovation fund".
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  #23  
Old 12.10.2021, 14:55
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

Sorry to recover this thread back from the dead, but.... winter is approaching again

There's basically no technical issue with our manifold, etc. but our flat reaches around 20oC max at the moment (I have all valves fully open). We spoke to the building administrator and she said that there's a new energy law restricting underfloor heating to 19-20oC max. Other residents are also complaining (and they own their flat, so it must be even more annoying).

I'm not a fan of others deciding our apartment temperature, especially as we pay charges which are fixed (we don't do the annual calculation and calibration of charges - we agreed that in the contract). We can live with it for now (we're renting), but has anybody heard of any law restricting the temperature to 19-20 ?!
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  #24  
Old 12.10.2021, 15:13
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

Only the restriction by my wife
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  #25  
Old 12.10.2021, 15:28
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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but has anybody heard of any law restricting the temperature to 19-20 ?!
No, but a temperature of 20'C is often set for the underfloor heating water temperature as this, coupled with wasted heat from cooking appliances, electrical appliances, warmth from the sun, bodies (live ones), incandescent lamp bulbs etc etc etc will mean that the actual room temperature will be more like 23 - 24'C.

I think your building administrator is misunderstanding this fairly simple concept.

This 20'C figure is probably well out of date as LED lamps, modern electronics, induction hobs etc will mean that the radiating heat from these appliances and lighting will no longer be effective in providing the extra heat so the UFH water temperature will need to be increased to take this into account.

It's room temperature that is important, not UFH water temperature.
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  #26  
Old 12.10.2021, 16:48
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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We spoke to the building administrator and she said that there's a new energy law restricting underfloor heating to 19-20oC max.
If anyone ever talks about a rule or law, ask them where you can see the text of it.

My underfloor heating is set to 22°C
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  #27  
Old 12.10.2021, 17:12
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

We observe the same in our current as well as previous apartment. Both are 2-5 years old. Adjusting the temperature controls to the max does not seem to increase the overall temperature whatsoever.
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  #28  
Old 12.10.2021, 17:32
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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We observe the same in our current as well as previous apartment. Both are 2-5 years old. Adjusting the temperature controls to the max does not seem to increase the overall temperature whatsoever.
How long do you wait? It would take several hours for a change in room temperature to be noticeable after adjustment of a thermostat.
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  #29  
Old 12.10.2021, 18:32
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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We observe the same in our current as well as previous apartment. Both are 2-5 years old. Adjusting the temperature controls to the max does not seem to increase the overall temperature whatsoever.
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How long do you wait? It would take several hours for a change in room temperature to be noticeable after adjustment of a thermostat.
With floor heating even days.

But if you see no effect, check the flow indicators. If there is flow through the floor heating and still not warm enough, then the return temp must be increased.

There is no law limiting underfloor heating temperatures, that is just BS.
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  #30  
Old 13.10.2021, 13:02
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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With floor heating even days.

But if you see no effect, check the flow indicators. If there is flow through the floor heating and still not warm enough, then the return temp must be increased.

There is no law limiting underfloor heating temperatures, that is just BS.
Thanks for your feedback all.

All our flow is good. In fact, before they replaced the downstairs heating system recently (2020), our flat was very warm, so I had the valves down very low. Now it's all on max and reaches around 20oC due to restriction on main system.

This flat even has all the electronic actuators and thermostats to control the temperature in each room - now completely useless, I've unplugged them, as we just need everything on max.
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  #31  
Old 13.10.2021, 14:29
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

When I was first in Switzerland with my cheap British shoes, the first flat I was in had underfloor heating.

My first evening I sat in a chair watching TV and when I stood up the soles of my shoes stayed there, the glue had melted.
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  #32  
Old 13.10.2021, 14:51
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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When I was first in Switzerland with my cheap British shoes, the first flat I was in had underfloor heating.

My first evening I sat in a chair watching TV and when I stood up the soles of my shoes stayed there, the glue had melted.

British shoes are rarely cheap, shoes purchased in Britain maybe cheap
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  #33  
Old 13.10.2021, 16:32
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

Just a note: A guaranteed room temperature by builders in a newbuild in Switzerland is typically only around 20 degC.

Heat added to the flat is not depending only on flow, but also on the temperature of the water in the system. Normally this is set by the central heating (gas heater, heatpump...) depending on an outside temperature, accoprding to the curve and perhaps a bit (=not much) of intelligence. 20 degrees water in pipes is not going to raise the temperature of the flat above 20 degrees, regardless of the flow.

How large is the apartment block (how many flats)? I can imagine in small ones with 2-3 flats the regulation of the heating may be a challenge, because cirquits for different flats are affecting each other more significantly, i.e. there may easily be a "short cirquit" through one of the flats (with the least resistance, shortest pipes) and you will not achieve adequate flow in other flats no matter what. But it is a task for heating technician (who has more controls available) to solve, not for the user.
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  #34  
Old 13.10.2021, 16:34
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

Surface temperature of the flooring should not exceed 27 deg C. There is a norm for that, although older building can be still exceeding that (never saw such one tbh).
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  #35  
Old 13.10.2021, 18:29
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

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Just a note: A guaranteed room temperature by builders in a newbuild in Switzerland is typically only around 20 degC.

Heat added to the flat is not depending only on flow, but also on the temperature of the water in the system. Normally this is set by the central heating (gas heater, heatpump...) depending on an outside temperature, accoprding to the curve and perhaps a bit (=not much) of intelligence. 20 degrees water in pipes is not going to raise the temperature of the flat above 20 degrees, regardless of the flow.

How large is the apartment block (how many flats)? I can imagine in small ones with 2-3 flats the regulation of the heating may be a challenge, because cirquits for different flats are affecting each other more significantly, i.e. there may easily be a "short cirquit" through one of the flats (with the least resistance, shortest pipes) and you will not achieve adequate flow in other flats no matter what. But it is a task for heating technician (who has more controls available) to solve, not for the user.
It's a building of 8 apartments, but according to our neighbours they all seem to be too cold.

It was all fine in 2019 before the downstairs heating system was replaced. Our apartment would be 23-24, with valves on very low.
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  #36  
Old 13.10.2021, 20:30
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Re: Underfloor heating - strange problem

Most regies will not put up temps until November or when clocks change.
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